Judge Spear
Well-Known Member
I'm probably too late, but I'll put in your FC now.
I'll be playing for a while though. I'm grinding my Link in Scrub Glory.
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Super Smash Bros.
- Thread starter Auramaru
- Start date
I'm probably too late, but I'll put in your FC now.
I'll be playing for a while though. I'm grinding my Link in Scrub Glory.
SkyboundTerror
Thrashing About
Played a bit longer than I should have, haha. Eugh, that Fox is hard to keep up with at times because of the hit-and-run tactics, and that lag wasn't making it easier for either of us. If only you were a liiiittle more consistent with your punishes.
Good games. Solid Fox. Felt weird playing your Ike. lol
Good games. Solid Fox. Felt weird playing your Ike. lol
SirRob
Well-Known Member
Sorry to say, but... my thumb actually hurts from playing Terror. I probably shouldn't play more tonight.
The lag felt inconsistent. Although maybe things just feel more laggy when I'm losing.
Fox is Charizard's worst match up, yeah? I wanted to use Ike because not only is Fox my tryhard character, but he'd also be acting as a crutch. Problem with Ike though, is that even though I've actually studied up on him, he's not second nature. With Fox I don't really have to focus so much on actually controlling him; I can focus more on the opponent.
SkyboundTerror
Thrashing About
Nah, Charizard's worst match up is either King Dedede or Zero Suit Samus. Dedede outranges and out-prioritizes Charizard, and his gordo can shut down all approaches. Zero Suit Samus is just stupid to fight - the match-up feels like roller skating on ice for Charizard.
I'd say Fox and Charizard have an even match-up, a little in Fox's favor. Fox can combo 'zard all day, but once Charizard gets Fox off the stage, he can easily edge guard him because of Flamethrower. Both are also punish-heavy characters so it often comes down to who makes a mistake first, and of course, Charizard hits harder.
I'd say Fox and Charizard have an even match-up, a little in Fox's favor. Fox can combo 'zard all day, but once Charizard gets Fox off the stage, he can easily edge guard him because of Flamethrower. Both are also punish-heavy characters so it often comes down to who makes a mistake first, and of course, Charizard hits harder.
Judge Spear
Well-Known Member
I feel like anyone fast can just rush down Charizard. Sheik doesn't even need to be mentioned.
SirRob
Well-Known Member
Dedede, huh? I wouldn't have even thought of that. As for Zero Suit Samus... she's everyone's worst match up. So no surprise there.
I disagree that Fox and Charizard are even. I feel like Fox has enough variety in his recovery to get back onto the stage safely. He can delay his timing with Reflector and use either Fox Illusion or Fire Fox, or both. He can choose to grab the ledge, charge at you or just go over you entirely. It's more than most characters.
Flare Blitz and Rock Smash are also super punishable, much more than anything Fox does. Even if Charizard hits harder, he leaves himself more open. And since he's easily combo'd, he's really the ideal fodder for Fox.
I disagree that Fox and Charizard are even. I feel like Fox has enough variety in his recovery to get back onto the stage safely. He can delay his timing with Reflector and use either Fox Illusion or Fire Fox, or both. He can choose to grab the ledge, charge at you or just go over you entirely. It's more than most characters.
Flare Blitz and Rock Smash are also super punishable, much more than anything Fox does. Even if Charizard hits harder, he leaves himself more open. And since he's easily combo'd, he's really the ideal fodder for Fox.
Judge Spear
Well-Known Member
Fox has far better approaches and being the 4th fastest in the game, he has a near unmatched combo game. His edgeguarding tools aren't that great, but he doesn't need it because really you want to take stocks off the top with U-air combos or up smash setups (he has probably the best up smash in the game). Of course, he's gone down just a little because they nerfed his stupid ass jab lock infinite (thank fuck) so you actually have to put some thought into up smash setups. Works best reading rolls, especially coming up on the ledge.
Alternatively, and being heavy Charizard suffers from this greatly, you could use a sour spotted Fair to spike him if you're good at it.
Charizard gets absolutely outmatched if a Fox gives him no breathing room.
Alternatively, and being heavy Charizard suffers from this greatly, you could use a sour spotted Fair to spike him if you're good at it.
Charizard gets absolutely outmatched if a Fox gives him no breathing room.
W
Weiss
Guest
I need to use ZS Samus more...
But I'm dedicating my time to Ike right now.
Anyone want to toss me around?
But I'm dedicating my time to Ike right now.
Anyone want to toss me around?
Judge Spear
Well-Known Member
W
Weiss
Guest
Added. Same.
Add primary in my sig.
I'll likely be using Ike. And I'll be bad soooo...
Add primary in my sig.
I'll likely be using Ike. And I'll be bad soooo...
SkyboundTerror
Thrashing About
Flamethrower catches Fox's up b and side b, even if Flamethrower is stale, so if Fox tries to recover low, it's game. Fox can mix up his recovery, but Charizard will still have stage control and then he can mix up his edge guarding. Flamethrower shuts down most of Fox's options, and recovering high only gets him punished. I've played a lot of good Fox players and they all fall to Flamethrower, and it's not only Fox, either. Charizard's edge guarding game just happens to be one of the best, if not the best, and many characters suffer from it. He can wall out most characters with short-hopped forward airs, too.
Fox does have the tools to pressure Charizard, and Charizard does get combo'd by him, but when it comes down to getting the KO, Fox needs to get a hard read because he lacks a reliable way to take down Charizard. The lack of kill throw is also detrimental. That's when Charizard has the upper hand because Charizard is all about prediction and punishing, and thanks to the high percentage that he'll have from Fox's comboing, he can KO early because of rage. Charizard also has one of the best kill throws in the game now so Fox can't be pressuring his shield unless he wants to get grabbed and KO'd/thrown off the stage. Fox becomes incredibly predictable when closing in on the kill, and Charizard gives Fox a beating if the Fox player isn't playing flawlessly. And no one plays flawlessly.
Fox has set-ups and the combo game. Charizard has the edge guarding and the punish game. Fox will be ahead most of the match, but Charizard can quickly turn that around if the Fox gets cocky or hiccups. Rock Smash shuts down Fox's KO options, so even if a Fox player thinks he has a read, he probably doesn't because the Charizard will counter the read with his own.
The match-up is even in my books because it all comes down to who gets the punish. They both screw each other up bad. It's even better for Charizard if custom moves are put into the equation. Dragon Rush and Rock Hurl give Fox a very hard time.
The same thing can be said for the Captain Falcon and Sheik match-up.
I wouldn't recommend that since Flare Blitz has heavy armor, and Fly has super armor. The Fox will only get stage-spiked.
Fox does have the tools to pressure Charizard, and Charizard does get combo'd by him, but when it comes down to getting the KO, Fox needs to get a hard read because he lacks a reliable way to take down Charizard. The lack of kill throw is also detrimental. That's when Charizard has the upper hand because Charizard is all about prediction and punishing, and thanks to the high percentage that he'll have from Fox's comboing, he can KO early because of rage. Charizard also has one of the best kill throws in the game now so Fox can't be pressuring his shield unless he wants to get grabbed and KO'd/thrown off the stage. Fox becomes incredibly predictable when closing in on the kill, and Charizard gives Fox a beating if the Fox player isn't playing flawlessly. And no one plays flawlessly.
Fox has set-ups and the combo game. Charizard has the edge guarding and the punish game. Fox will be ahead most of the match, but Charizard can quickly turn that around if the Fox gets cocky or hiccups. Rock Smash shuts down Fox's KO options, so even if a Fox player thinks he has a read, he probably doesn't because the Charizard will counter the read with his own.
The match-up is even in my books because it all comes down to who gets the punish. They both screw each other up bad. It's even better for Charizard if custom moves are put into the equation. Dragon Rush and Rock Hurl give Fox a very hard time.
The same thing can be said for the Captain Falcon and Sheik match-up.
I wouldn't recommend that since Flare Blitz has heavy armor, and Fly has super armor. The Fox will only get stage-spiked.
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W
Weiss
Guest
Talk about dragon expert haha.
How long must I wait for my love to return?! (Wolf)
How long must I wait for my love to return?! (Wolf)
Judge Spear
Well-Known Member
Good luck landing any of that on a GOOD Fox.
Tiamat, GET OUT.
Tiamat, GET OUT.
Luca
Lined my brain with more eyes
W
Weiss
Guest
I like Ike's airs. <3
Someone should give me their opinions on them.
Someone should give me their opinions on them.
Judge Spear
Well-Known Member
Short hop fast fall Nair is his best approach and true combos into a down tilt or foward tilt. I think its also a grab confirm like Kirby's. It can even hit from behind so be mindful of that.
And no, I was not firing shots at Sky. But honestly, a lot of what was said just would not happen against a Fox who knows his stuff. That's not to say a good Zardy can't beat Fox, skill determines most situations, but two equally high level players? It's really not likely. But Sky could just be Dat Boyâ„¢ and beast mode people. I've never played him so he might be able to demonstrate. Not that I play Fox.
SkyboundTerror
Thrashing About
The same can be said for Charizard if we're talking hypothetically. A Charizard will never allow a Fox to KO him thanks to disjointed hitboxes and super armor. Let's not forget that Charizard is the 8th fastest character in running speed with an amazing dash stop, so he can potentially juggle a Fox using up tilts and up smashes, never letting him touch the ground - 'Zard's wings don't have a hurtbox. I could argue it all day. lol
Charizard gets almost no representation, and is criminally underestimated, so getting his point of view across is often a hassle because of most players' inexperience with the character. He is NOT easy to use.
But, hypothetical, as with all match-up discussions. Skill is the only true factor, and as I've mentioned before, I've played many Fox players so I'm no stranger to the match-up. I tend to win most games, or go toe-to-toe when playing a Fox.
Charizard gets almost no representation, and is criminally underestimated, so getting his point of view across is often a hassle because of most players' inexperience with the character. He is NOT easy to use.
But, hypothetical, as with all match-up discussions. Skill is the only true factor, and as I've mentioned before, I've played many Fox players so I'm no stranger to the match-up. I tend to win most games, or go toe-to-toe when playing a Fox.
DukeTheHusky
The Gamer Dog
Tournament day today! Going to my third, and I WILL be making Top 10 this time. I got close last time getting 13th but I can only get better.
Skybound! I don't even have any Charizards in my local scene but I need to learn the match up with both my Villager and Yoshi like the back of my hand. Since the recent patches I feel like he is going to become more common, he has alot of potential now... I haven't had a match against you in awhile and all I really know or remember about Charizards is that I can live his up throw until like 120 with proper DI on FD after fighting Leety (found him randomly on FG, one the very rare times I go on there).
I see some people I haven't around here too. And one of them seems to know what they are talking about *cough* XoPachi *cough*. I wonder who they main? :v
Skybound! I don't even have any Charizards in my local scene but I need to learn the match up with both my Villager and Yoshi like the back of my hand. Since the recent patches I feel like he is going to become more common, he has alot of potential now... I haven't had a match against you in awhile and all I really know or remember about Charizards is that I can live his up throw until like 120 with proper DI on FD after fighting Leety (found him randomly on FG, one the very rare times I go on there).
I see some people I haven't around here too. And one of them seems to know what they are talking about *cough* XoPachi *cough*. I wonder who they main? :v
DukeTheHusky
The Gamer Dog
*cough* Villager *cough*
Achoral
Member
I gotta play SkyboundTerror again in the future to see how. As everyone dropped Charizard and consider him as garbage since then, just like Wii Fit Trainer and Palutena, it's always surprising to find players who manage to do decent things with them.
To me, Charizard's edgeguarding is far from being as effective as Sheik/Rosalina/Rob/Diddy/Sonic/Pikachu/Luigi.
To me, Charizard's edgeguarding is far from being as effective as Sheik/Rosalina/Rob/Diddy/Sonic/Pikachu/Luigi.
Judge Spear
Well-Known Member
Ok. Sorry. I wanted to play a few of you but I got swept out of state Friday night. I'm back now. I'm up for a few rounds.
TransformerRobot
Robot in disguise
I still want to see Dr. Eggman make it to Smash Bros.
Judge Spear
Well-Known Member
No seriously, someone (competitive) get on the sticks right quick. Fight my Lonk. :l
Stratelier
Well-Known Member
I have 12 challenges left to go on panel 3.
Collecting all the Smash Run powers should be easy, right? ...right?
Anyway, I had the luckiest break on one Smash Run: I picked Sonic, got a helluva lot of Speed buffs (600+), and what's the final challenge? RUN!
I hit one obstacle near the end but still finished like twice as fast as everyone else.
Collecting all the Smash Run powers should be easy, right? ...right?
Anyway, I had the luckiest break on one Smash Run: I picked Sonic, got a helluva lot of Speed buffs (600+), and what's the final challenge? RUN!
I hit one obstacle near the end but still finished like twice as fast as everyone else.