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Supreme Court strikes down DOMA - Avoids ruling on Prop 8

CaptainCool

Lady of the lake
Re: Supreme Court strikes down DOMA

Congratulations, 'Merica. You just cought up to Germany.
The situation is pretty similar now in both our countries. Gay marriage isn't really 100% legal yet but gay couples now get their tax benefits.
This is an amazing step towards marriage equality but we are not quite there yet. We have to keep pushing for it and show those bigots who keep pushing against it who is boss!
 

Arshes Nei

Masticates in Public
Re: Supreme Court strikes down DOMA

They also avoided ruling on Prop 8. So now that means the former ruling stands. The problem is that it may be that it only applies to the couple that challenged it by proponents for Prop 8.
 

CannonFodder

Resistance is futile! If 0 ohm
But it's just in California?
Short version: They side stepped making a ruling on Prop 8, BUT gay marriage can resume in California and ding dong DOMA is dead.

What this means in the long run: gay rights are probably going to make a massive push to legalize gay marriage in their states. Now that DOMA is dead it'll be much harder to legally to stop gay marriage in states. Think of it as a game of jenga; gay rights proponets just removed the bottom two left and right blocks on the tower.
 

CannonFodder

Resistance is futile! If 0 ohm
Re: Supreme Court strikes down DOMA

Well, America needs to kill WAY more Jews first before it catches up to Germany.
. . . Dude . . did you really just godwin a thread about gay rights?
 

CaptainCool

Lady of the lake
Short version: They side stepped making a ruling on Prop 8, BUT gay marriage can resume in California and ding dong DOMA is dead.

What this means in the long run: gay rights are probably going to make a massive push to legalize gay marriage in their states. Now that DOMA is dead it'll be much harder to legally to stop gay marriage in states. Think of it as a game of jenga; gay rights proponets just removed the bottom two left and right blocks on the tower.

Without DOMA Prop 8 is gonna fall as well sooner or later.

Well, America needs to kill WAY more Jews first before it catches up to Germany.

Look at my avatar. Does he look like a guy who gives a carp about what you say?
 
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Willow

FAF's #1 Terrorist
Short version: They side stepped making a ruling on Prop 8, BUT gay marriage can resume in California and ding dong DOMA is dead.

What this means in the long run: gay rights are probably going to make a massive push to legalize gay marriage in their states. Now that DOMA is dead it'll be much harder to legally to stop gay marriage in states. Think of it as a game of jenga; gay rights proponets just removed the bottom two left and right blocks on the tower.
What a time to be alive.

I kind of figured that's what was meant but when I saw DOMA was struck down I thought maybe it meant states would have to recognize same-sex marriage
 

CannonFodder

Resistance is futile! If 0 ohm
Without DOMA Prop 8 is gonna fall as well sooner or later
My money is on sooner.
What a time to be alive.

I kind of figured that's what was meant but when I saw DOMA was struck down I thought maybe it meant states would have to recognize same-sex marriage
Nah, what it does mean though is that we're probably going to see a lot of people and states contesting their state's banning of gay marriage in courts and such.

To use a video game analogy imagine it as a rts video game. DOMA and Prop 8 are two barriers preventing gay marriage, with DOMA gone the opponents of gay marriage are having to deal with gay rights activists zerg rushing.

What is probably going to happen is states that have previously banned gay marriage are probably going to have a shit ton of bills and court cases contesting it. The long term effect is that states that had previously banned gay marriage by a slim margin are going to reverse that; where states more dug in against gay rights are going to hold out as long as they can by doing stuff like ordering for the cases to not be heard/banning discussion of it in their state governments and such to cock block any new legislation or court rulings.

It doesn't outright legalize gay marriage so much as it's going to start reversing state's decisions to ban gay marriage.
 
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Arshes Nei

Masticates in Public
Without DOMA Prop 8 is gonna fall as well sooner or later.

You need to read what they said about ruling on DOMA. Fed still insists that it's a States Right issue, the Fed has no business denying rights on a Federal level.

Prop 8 is more tricky. They denied ruling on it due to "standing" the other problem is that you still have the grey area if whether or not the previous ruling was only for the gay couples involved in the dispute or ALL gays. So basically the courts just giving themselves more work to do.
 

CaptainCool

Lady of the lake
You need to read what they said about ruling on DOMA. Fed still insists that it's a States Right issue, the Fed has no business denying rights on a Federal level.

Prop 8 is more tricky. They denied ruling on it due to "standing" the other problem is that you still have the grey area if whether or not the previous ruling was only for the gay couples involved in the dispute or ALL gays. So basically the courts just giving themselves more work to do.

My point is that since the federal government now acknowledges same sex marriages as real marriages Prop 8 has less ground to stand on :3
 

Arshes Nei

Masticates in Public
My point is that since the federal government now acknowledges same sex marriages as real marriages Prop 8 has less ground to stand on :3

Not really. It just says that the Federal government can't discriminate where a state has legalized marriage. This doesn't give propositions less legal ground to stand on. It just means the Federal government can't discriminate on a Federal level benefits, where a state on the other hand can.

Because if Prop 8 didn't have this problem they could have just ignored the "standing" issue like they did and struck it down. They in fact stated this was a state decision when striking down DOMA. So I don't see your point unless your ignorance of how the US government is part of your argument?

It's like speed limit laws. Federal government didn't restrict states from having their own speed limit - but they could deny certain funds if states didn't have a certain post limit.

Filing Taxes is going to be a clusterfuck due to the differences in recognition on state vs Federal.
 

CannonFodder

Resistance is futile! If 0 ohm
Not really. It just says that the Federal government can't discriminate where a state has legalized marriage. This doesn't give propositions less legal ground to stand on. It just means the Federal government can't discriminate on a Federal level benefits, where a state on the other hand can.

Because if Prop 8 didn't have this problem they could have just ignored the "standing" issue like they did and struck it down. They in fact stated this was a state decision when striking down DOMA. So I don't see your point unless your ignorance of how the US government is part of your argument?

It's like speed limit laws. Federal government didn't restrict states from having their own speed limit - but they could deny certain funds if states didn't have a certain post limit.

Filing Taxes is going to be a clusterfuck due to the differences in recognition on state vs Federal.
The problem with this is that federal law trumps state laws. While Prop 8 still stands we're in the conundrum where gay marriage and gay rights is recognized on a federal level whereas as gay marriage is a states rights. Even though they decided it should be a state issue, it does bring up the problem of "wait if it's a state issue then why was DOMA struck down".
So I don't see your point unless your ignorance of how the US government is part of your argument?
Being a mod must be awesome, cause being able to directly say someone is ignorant without getting in trouble has got to be wicked sweet.
 

Butters Shikkon

Patron Saint of Queers
Being a mod must be awesome, cause being able to directly say someone is ignorant without getting in trouble has got to be wicked sweet.

Well, you can be ignorant sometimes, CF.

It means to lack knowledge or understanding of a subject.
 

Term_the_Schmuck

Most Interesting Man on FAF
The problem with this is that federal law trumps state laws. While Prop 8 still stands we're in the conundrum where gay marriage and gay rights is recognized on a federal level whereas as gay marriage is a states rights. Even though they decided it should be a state issue, it does bring up the problem of "wait if it's a state issue then why was DOMA struck down".

Uh, no.

The fact that DOMA has been struck down furthers the idea of this being a state issue, especially since the court punted the Prop 8 issue back down to the 9th Circuit. Prop 8 was struck down in that circuit for being unconstitutional, but that doesn't hold any precedent over any other state in a circuit other than the 9th. So if for example a Prop 8 type law is enacted in Massachusetts, we'll have to go over this whole thing all over again since it concerns issues in the 1st Circuit. They could rule to keep their Prop 8 law intact and if the Supreme Court rules, via precedent here, that the issue is not within federal jurisdiction then Prop 8 type laws would be constitutional in other states within that circuit.

The only thing that's really been accomplished here is that SCOTUS has effectively passed the buck on this issue to the states.

Being a mod must be awesome, cause being able to directly say someone is ignorant without getting in trouble has got to be wicked sweet.

CF you never stop amazing with your ability to try and guilt-trip mods into not being able to voice their opinions on anything because of a vaguely perceived insult.

Frankly what CC has been saying shows at least some level of ignorance towards how the US judicial and legislative systems work. Not to mention of course your own.
 

Arshes Nei

Masticates in Public
The problem with this is that federal law trumps state laws. While Prop 8 still stands we're in the conundrum where gay marriage and gay rights is recognized on a federal level whereas as gay marriage is a states rights. Even though they decided it should be a state issue, it does bring up the problem of "wait if it's a state issue then why was DOMA struck down".

Being a mod must be awesome, cause being able to directly say someone is ignorant without getting in trouble has got to be wicked sweet.

Cry me a river, saying someone is "ignorant of how X things work" is not the same as calling someone IGNORANT overall.

Except that it only applies to things on a Federal level, ie certain benefits and such. If the state has a certain health care system run by the state - Federal Government stays out. If certain laws pertaining to marriage on the state don't get Federal money where the Feds can directly interfere with it, then Feds can't "trump" because they're not involved.

It's something of a win because if you move to a state that has a gay marriage ban, you can receive federal benefits and laws pertaining to marriage. However, you can still be denied recognition on a state level where certain benefits (provided) you would receive are denied.

Basically the courts set themselves up for more work to do, because it opens up for various lawsuits that aren't clarified.

As I stated, because the Supreme dodged the entire Prop 8 issue on a technicality, it makes it more ambiguous on what part of Prop 8 isn't allowed. The previous ruling may be argued it only applied to the 2 couples that brought up the suit and not all gays.
 

CaptainCool

Lady of the lake
So I don't see your point unless your ignorance of how the US government is part of your argument?

... Yes? :D

Frankly what CC has been saying shows at least some level of ignorance towards how the US judicial and legislative systems work. Not to mention of course your own.

I have to be honest, I have no idea how the american political system works. My argument was entirely based on "what sounds reasonable to me" because I see the same problem that CF described: The federal government acknowledges the rights of gay couples and yet the systems below it in the political hierarchy do not. To me a situation like that simply makes no sense.
Here in Germany we have a similar system. We have the "federal government" and every state has it's own government as well. But what the feds say has to be done. They usually just give guidelines that the states have to uphold and stuff like education can be decided on by each state but they always meet to discuss at least a few standards that everyone then has to keep.
 

DarrylWolf

Banned
Banned
What will probably happen is that the state legislatures will decide for themselves whether or not they want to legalize gay marriage. A federal mandate would be unenforceable in certain areas.
 
My money is on sooner.

Nah, what it does mean though is that we're probably going to see a lot of people and states contesting their state's banning of gay marriage in courts and such.

To use a video game analogy imagine it as a rts video game. DOMA and Prop 8 are two barriers preventing gay marriage, with DOMA gone the opponents of gay marriage are having to deal with gay rights activists zerg rushing.

What is probably going to happen is states that have previously banned gay marriage are probably going to have a shit ton of bills and court cases contesting it. The long term effect is that states that had previously banned gay marriage by a slim margin are going to reverse that; where states more dug in against gay rights are going to hold out as long as they can by doing stuff like ordering for the cases to not be heard/banning discussion of it in their state governments and such to cock block any new legislation or court rulings.

It doesn't outright legalize gay marriage so much as it's going to start reversing state's decisions to ban gay marriage.

I love when a SC analogy is used to describe politics my fave :p. I heard alot of arguing on a local radio station and the only arguement that came up was that it would cost companies more because they'd have to give benefits to civil partners also. Another good one was an arguement that a grandfather could marry his son to pass on his SS benefits and keep his money tax free LOL.

Just give the fucking people equal rights and call it a day.
 
Re: Supreme Court strikes down DOMA

Congratulations, 'Merica. You just cought up to Germany.
The situation is pretty similar now in both our countries. Gay marriage isn't really 100% legal yet but gay couples now get their tax benefits.
This is an amazing step towards marriage equality but we are not quite there yet. We have to keep pushing for it and show those bigots who keep pushing against it who is boss!
Being overtaken by france? mkay...
Being overtaken by the fucking USA? WTF?!
 

Sparklepaws

The Wooflewaffle
I woke up this morning to this and honestly, I spent the entire first half of my day just smiling and talking to friends. My entire life has been resting on DOMA being overturned, since my mate of five years has been stuck in England away from me.

With DOMA repealed, I can bring him over on a Spousal or Marriage Visa. We can finally live together here in the USA and be happy. This decision means the world to me, and for once I feel a tinge of pride that this terrible country made a good decision. It shows progress.

I'm really happy to have been alive in this day and age, it means I'll have stories to tell one day about how I watched a country accept a way of life. Also some fun news, tomorrow is our anniversary, so... best present EVER!
 

Calemeyr

Vere Adeptus
DOMA in its entirety was not repealed. Section 3 of the law, concerning the "definition" of marriage (according to Gingrich's congress...hmm funny that an adulterer gets to define what marriage is) was struck down, with the majority of the justices saying it violated the Fifth Amendment. Section 2 of the law posits that the federal government cannot force states to acknowledge same sex marriage (or unions, not quite sure) leaving it up to the states to decide. This section was not struck down.

You have to find it funny that here in America, you have people who likely think being overweight is just "who you are", while being gay is a choice, the wrong one at that.
 

PsychicOtter

Otter Missionary
It's obviously a good sign, but it's crazy how far behind the US is with this. Banning gay marriage is completely unconstitutional, not to mention unethical.
 
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