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The Erection... er Election...

RedSavage

Rattlesnake Flavored
I think candidates' full educational records should be available to the public, so we can see who actually knows what they're talking about.

OOO! And get FULL transparency about donations to party candidates! That way we can see how much donations from Big Oil and arms manufacturers are going to the republicans who's getting their money from where and then see if they're truly being unbiased in their policy schemes!



....Pfff as fucking if.
 

Kit H. Ruppell

Exterminieren! Exterminieren!
They may as well just share their entire personal lives from the beginning, since it's all we ever hear about while they're in office. I want to know the kind of people they are from the start.
 
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Lobar

The hell am I reading, here?
----For a moment I thought you were agreeing with me??? Cause our current system isn't going anywhere. And the people voting these "elite" power groups? They only vote for them because they're within their political ideals. Not that they actually read what all they support or what they have/haven't voted for.

No, we are actually going somewhere over time: worse. Income and wealth disparity's been growing for the last fifty years, we are now literally at Gilded Age levels.

And that's just the thing. No one actually thinks their group is pandering to them. They just think that their group is right and speaking total and common plain sense. Lemme ask you this--have you ever checked to see if there's any mild conservatives who might have some ideas you agree with?

I'm always paying attention. The only mild conservatives in office today are Democrats.

Also, Lobar, curious, are you European far-left or American far-left? I'm referring to actually political philosophies, not American government definitions.

I really haven't seen enough actual leftism in either region to properly differentiate the two. I identify as a socialist.
 

Feste

I haven't found an answer yet
What? Why? Who says this? I mean--okay, I get that every person lining up to represent every individual would devolve into WHO CAN YELL THE LOUDEST, but it doesn't necessarily have to be ALL one way. And honestly? A coalition is not the same as a hard defined political party that only changes central policy once every few decades. In fact, I wouldn't mind TEMPORARY coalitions that strived to push forward certain issues. Instead of, yanno, paid politicians and lawyers picking all our laws and issues for us.

Well, it's mainly because people who tend to agree on one issue tend to also agree on multiple issues. I mean, even in the system now there is still bipartisanship i.e. people like Blue Dogs and RINOs. It's just not as much talked about because, well, they get overshadowed by the shoutier people. While no Republicans voted for AHA when it mattered, there were Democrats who voted against it. And, don't forget, Obamacare was originally based on...Romneycare, which came under Romney, a Republican. The problem with Coalitions is that they tend to give the shoutier people more power, which makes it even harder to get things done. Again, look at temporary coalition governments in Europe or the UK. They tend to not get things done or dissolve. Parties, especially the two party system, whether we like it or not, provide stability that allows lawmakers in theory to get things done.

See, we have this crazy thing called The Press. Ideally? (HA. HAHA.) The press would raise an issue at a local level. The local government would consider it via the people and pass it. Mainstream press picks up on it. I'ts now a state issue. Then a national issue. The press, whose original job is to more or less report what the hell the government is up to, then displays the debates and proceedings of individuals.

This actually does tend to happen at a state level, which can sometimes proceed to a national level. Again, though it ends up being for bills that aren't publicized. Big ideas don't come from small places after all. But as a larger example, look at Marijuana. The legalized it in Colorado, this got big press, and now Oregon and Washington have joined. Soon, it may go to Congress. So it can work like that, despite the degradation of today's news.

Again, I feel like they're all still pandering to a party of thought rather than a system where coalitions are only formed for certain issues and public interests. But, maybe I'm talking of something wonderfully mythical and impossible. Like unicorns and the fountain of youth. Which bloooooows, but doesn't exempt the status quo from my criticism and disdain.

Well, it does happen. I'm pretty sure Belgium has a green party, for example. They just tend to get ignored because they don't have much thought outside that big issue. It's just, you can't just govern based on one issue, and if you made a different coalition for every issue, either the politics would make the government unstable due to the complexity of trying to organize groups for each individual issue, or we come back to large coalitions.


Then maybe it's time we think up a new form of government? I mean, so many hundreds of years of government, we've been merely tweaking and adjusting. It's like trying to improve the gas powered lamp over the course of a hundred years instead of inventing the light bulb. Maybe something to do with more public oriented parties/coalitions temporarily formed for the sake of issues. You know--PUBLIC lobbyists, instead of corporately paid ones.

I agree, along with your next post. Especially with having public campaign finance laws, including finance limits. The sad thing is...they've been shot down in congress. The main issue is that government needs to be adjusted from within, and at this point they're too corrupt to be able to. Sad but true. We might have been able to do it in the 1990s (they did pass an amendment saying Congress can't give itself a raise, for example), but the rise of the grass movement republicans that brought in Regan and later the Gingrich ilk probably killed all that, sad to say.

As for lobbyists...there are good ones as well, even if they're not well financed. My mom is one at a state level for low income housing groups :). It pretty much just ends up being a lot of "who you know" though, so the corporate ones tend to dominate. It'd be nice to have lobbyists more accessible to the public, but influence can never be gotten for cheap in any society, so don't expect it to happen anytime soon...

I really haven't seen enough actual leftism in either region to properly differentiate the two. I identify as a socialist.

So American far-left. European ones tend to be more anarchist/communists. I find them to be scummy and distasteful, to be honest, pretty much the opposite of National Socialist groups and just as nasty.
 
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Lobar

The hell am I reading, here?
So American far-left. European ones tend to be more anarchist/communists. I find them to be scummy and distasteful, to be honest, pretty much the opposite of National Socialist groups and just as nasty.

Yeah, I'm not an anarchist, I'm all for state-owned infrastructure and central planning.
 

Feste

I haven't found an answer yet
That's acceptable. I've rejected socialism at this point, although it has some considerable credence. I just don't see it workable in a nation as diverse and complex as ours, unfortunately. I can give you a Cuban cigar if you'd like, however.
 

Hakar Kerarmor

PRAISE THE EMPEROR
So American far-left. European ones tend to be more anarchist/communists.

I'm an anarchist/communist? Funny, hadn't noticed.
 

Feste

I haven't found an answer yet
I'm an anarchist/communist? Funny, hadn't noticed.

Hey, I did say tend to be for a reason :p. Netherlands is kind of a moderate country too, right, relatively?
 

Lobar

The hell am I reading, here?

Roose Hurro

Lovable Curmudgeon
Banned
Well, as mentioned, I can't really reply, but my links do address this. Most people with employer plans weren't really affected. It's more for low-income people and recent graduates, like me, since I can wait until I'm 26 to get insurance since my company doesn't provide it.

All because the employer mandate was delayed... won't come into effect till next year. Even though the "personal" mandate remained on schedule. If ObamaCare worked, I'd like to know, why did Obama use Executive Order to mess with it, to delay certain parts while not delaying others? I could go on, but I don't really want to open that can of worms, to quote a well-worn phrase.
 

Feste

I haven't found an answer yet
All because the employer mandate was delayed... won't come into effect till next year. Even though the "personal" mandate remained on schedule. If ObamaCare worked, I'd like to know, why did Obama use Executive Order to mess with it, to delay certain parts while not delaying others? I could go on, but I don't really want to open that can of worms, to quote a well-worn phrase.

Fair enough, it was a part of the bill not drafted well; however, that is something Democrats want to revise because they know there are issues with it, and the big reason in why he's delaying it...unlike the Republicans who want to force its use through litigation for the purposes of making the whole ACA and Obama look bad. Again, how is this the Democrat's or Obama's fault? It's actually the Republicans making the situation worse.
 

Ayattar

Banned
Banned
One thing. Muricans, please don't try to understand european politics and parties. You won't. Give up. And the most important thing - don't try to compare them with your democrats and republicans. It won't work.
 
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RedSavage

Rattlesnake Flavored
I think I've got a fair list of dead end debates to NEVER hold with certain people. This isn't a negative, so much as a straight up interpretation of some users and their most direly held and unbendable ideals.

Lobar: Anything against liberal agenda
Roose: Anything against conservative agenda
Rukis_Whitefang: Religion
RedSavage: Dicks are awesome
FallowFox: Science>Supernatural--ALWAYS AND FOREVER
CaptainCool: RULES GODDAMIT. THE RULES.
Gibby: Toilet Paper Techniques


I'm fairly certain there's something everyone is the forum would argue until the horseman of the apocalypse stormed the earth, only to stand awkwardly by, afraid to tap the shoulder and interrupt anyone in that particular screaming match at that time.

One thing. Muricans, please don't try to understand european politics and parties. You won't. Give up.

I'm too busy trying to understand my own goddamned mess of a political system. If I ever move across the Atlantic, then it'll be my concern.
 

Digitalpotato

Rants like a Gryphon
It's a good thing that people remembered the whole "Shutdown" business that happened last year because the two parties kept squabbling and couldn't bother to do anything, and took this as an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone and get rid of them both


Oh wait...
 

Roose Hurro

Lovable Curmudgeon
Banned

And yet, just a brief mention of the personal mandate. Hmmm.

And then we have this recent issue. Again, the law as written being violated. And again I ask... why?

Sorry for the shortness, gotta run...
 

Lobar

The hell am I reading, here?
I think I've got a fair list of dead end debates to NEVER hold with certain people. This isn't a negative, so much as a straight up interpretation of some users and their most direly held and unbendable ideals.

Lobar: Anything against liberal agenda
Roose: Anything against conservative agenda
Rukis_Whitefang: Religion
RedSavage: Dicks are awesome
FallowFox: Science>Supernatural--ALWAYS AND FOREVER
CaptainCool: RULES GODDAMIT. THE RULES.
Gibby: Toilet Paper Techniques


I'm fairly certain there's something everyone is the forum would argue until the horseman of the apocalypse stormed the earth, only to stand awkwardly by, afraid to tap the shoulder and interrupt anyone in that particular screaming match at that time.

There is plenty worth criticizing the Democratic Party and their current agenda for, just not what they usually get actually criticized for.
 

Feste

I haven't found an answer yet
And yet, just a brief mention of the personal mandate. Hmmm.

And then we have this recent issue. Again, the law as written being violated. And again I ask... why?

Sorry for the shortness, gotta run...

If you're asking why it's not being pushed back, it's probably mainly because outside of some quirks it's mainly unobjectionable to Republicans. If anything, they're only adding exceptions, so they have little reason to attack it. As for the court case...it kind of has more to do with nit picking than law breaking. Basically, it's that the subsidies had to be offered in specific ways according to the AHA, so all the subsidies should be invalidated. It should be interesting to see if SCOTUS agrees, but I imagine as a conservative you're probably fine with bending the law a little :p.

One thing. Muricans, please don't try to understand european politics and parties. You won't. Give up. And the most important thing - don't try to compare them with your democrats and republicans. It won't work.

Well, you have like, way more systems than us, so yeah XD. All I know is, you're a bit more left wing in general, except the Netherlands due to that politician's death, and there are Nazi-ish groups in Southern German and Eastern Europe. Also, I think Bulgaria is run by a dictator; I'm too tired to check though so forgive me if I choose the wrong country with that. Oh, and Fuck Sweden.
 
T

TheMetalVelocity

Guest
There is plenty worth criticizing the Democratic Party and their current agenda for, just not what they usually get actually criticized for.
I can't think of much other than being overly politically correct.
 

Hakar Kerarmor

PRAISE THE EMPEROR

Chuchi

Where'd the time go?
As much as I often hate to say it, Republicans are usually better at foreign policy, and at the very least it'll put a damper on the whole "let's give Iran the ability to make nuclear weapons because that would be a GREAT idea!" thing. On Russia and Israel, I don't see much else a Republican Congress can really do, but it might help if the Third Intifada ends up happening, and it may make Putin more hesitant.

They could be more aggressive about the Ukraine bullshit and who knows what messes they think of by themselves.

[...]
CaptainCool: RULES GODDAMIT. THE RULES.
[...]
Actually: Religion, he is anti-Rukis

I'm too busy trying to understand my own goddamned mess of a political system. If I ever move across the Atlantic, then it'll be my concern.
Well, might consider "proportional representation" vote instead of the "first past the goalpost" vote. Gets us closer to being ruled by the idiots we deserve. (all imho)
 
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