The situation with North Korea

[Deleted member 82554]

For some reason when I hear of a nation threatening nuclear armageddon my mind always seems to wander back to Terminator 2 where the Terminator says "it's in your nature to destroy yourselves". Given recent events, there seems to be a lot of truth there.

If I were Trump, I wouldn't provoke a nation that in the space of a few years has gone from not being able to launch missiles at all, to actually being able to launch them. There is a good chance Korea will get the technology and someone smart enough to put it all together and make an effective weapon. All this posturing does is increase tension for both nations and puts the lives of the citizens at risk.

 

[Ramjet]

*deep breath* wrong

re entry means nothing its just s smaller target if the systems in SK don't hit them as soon as they go up other systems will i don't know how well known the systems i'm referring to are so i wont talk about them in detail but like... trust me my dude

Wrong,no system known to man can intercept an object that travels at 7km/s,that's how fast a re-entry vehicle comes in...
As far as tech that can intercept when the warhead is still in lower Earth orbit before detach,they would have less then 20 mins to get those interceptors online and firing..
With less then a 50/50 chance of hitting the target in that phase...
That's why I said best chance is for THAAD to do it's job when the missile is in boost...

 

[Jack Dakuyo]

@MAN_BURD

All I have to say to this is Zabivaka ...lol

Again as far as the rest of it.I feel it's going to be strategic warfare not warhead's and nuke.Just my opinion...

 

[Ramjet]

I think it will be more hot air blown in both directions with China not enforcing the new sanctions keeping the regime alive...
After a couple years the US will just have to deal with the fact that kinetic action is off the table, as is with other Nuclear powered states like Russia,China,Pakistan,India...ect...

 

[MAN_BURD]

Reminder that even if the Kim dynasty collapses, there will be a political issue between the US's allies and China on what to do with the "liberated" peninsula. If no resolution is made, there will be a repeat of Iraq in North Korea.

 

[Gushousekai195]

This helps to explain the situation.

That video actually made me laugh... and feel better.

 

[Jack Dakuyo]

@Ramjet556

Agreed! ...it's a thing but idk there are lots of other things.
Regarless if you live in CA or an unknown abandoned town someplace in the US (I don't even know where the heck I am on this planet anymore) I don't think Korea will be stopping any of our coffee or tea times,so Really there's nothing to worry about lol. worry can wait till I'm done with my bagel in the morning and my ham for lunch.

Also again that video was awesome so thanks for sharing lol

@Gushousekai195 I'm sorry it had to come at your expense but thanks for the thread,that was a lot of fun.^^

 

[GreenZone]

Wrong,no system known to man can intercept an object that travels at 7km/s,that's how fast a re-entry vehicle comes in...
As far as tech that can intercept when the warhead is still in lower Earth orbit before detach,they would have less then 20 mins to get those interceptors online and firing..
With less then a 50/50 chance of hitting the target in that phase...
That's why I said best chance is for THAAD to do it's job when the missile is in boost...

Ramjet mate i'm telling you that you're wrong there's shit the military has that's not made public until 20 years after its been rolled out in Melb before i joined the Army the Williams town dockyard (also the birthplace of metalstorm) were mounting railgun mounts to ships and that was probably 2008 ish and the worlds navy's are only now acting like they have only just started rolling railguns and lasers out

 

[SSJ3Mewtwo]

Ramjet mate i'm telling you that you're wrong there's shit the military has that's not made public until 20 years after its been rolled out in Melb before i joined the Army the Williams town dockyard (also the birthplace of metalstorm) were mounting railgun mounts to ships and that was probably 2008 ish and the worlds navy's are only now acting like they have only just started rolling railguns and lasers out

While it's entirely possible that tech of that sort has been developed but not publicly announced, that's not reason to say it definitely has. As it is, from everything I've heard, no, there is no defensive system that could effectively target and neutralize a re-entering warheard. They're too small, and moving far too fast. And there's often no way to predict which items that are being targeted are even the actual threats, since it's a very common practice to load MIRV units with decoys along with their actual payloads.

It's totally unknown right now if NK has developed MIRV capability or if the missiles they have are single unit weapons, but even if they're a single warhead type all evidence shown so far is that we have no ability to stop them after they've launched.

 

[GreenZone]

While it's entirely possible that tech of that sort has been developed but not publicly announced, that's not reason to say it definitely has. As it is, from everything I've heard, no, there is no defensive system that could effectively target and neutralize a re-entering warheard. They're too small, and moving far too fast. And there's often no way to predict which items that are being targeted are even the actual threats, since it's a very common practice to load MIRV units with decoys along with their actual payloads.

It's totally unknown right now if NK has developed MIRV capability or if the missiles they have are single unit weapons, but even if they're a single warhead type all evidence shown so far is that we have no ability to stop them after they've launched.

NK is far from having MIRV units their tech is so low that its little boy/fatman levels which wont be nation destroying like everyone thinks

NK probably has around 5 nukes the rest are just for show as many political and military analysts have pointed out and apart from that nukes are tracked the moment they leave the launch point it would be very hard particularly at north korea's level for them to actually hit a target

i honestly don't know where you guys are getting this information from its very easy to intercept a nuke the reason they haven't is because intercepting a missle even if its a fake nuke test is an act of aggression NK doesn't fire nukes into people boarders it fires them into international waters no one has any right to actually shoot them down

 

[SSJ3Mewtwo]

NK is far from having MIRV units their tech is so low that its little boy/fatman levels which wont be nation destroying like everyone thinks

NK probably has around 5 nukes the rest are just for show as many political and military analysts have pointed out and apart from that nukes are tracked the moment they leave the launch point it would be very hard particularly at north korea's level for them to actually hit a target

That's what makes nuclear weapons so terrifying.

You don't need to hit your target. You can be off by a mile or more, and the damage will still be massive.

And say they target a population center, just for the shock and horror. That's a lot of civilian deaths right away, followed by the after-effects of a nuclear detonation for years.

 

[GreenZone]

That's what makes nuclear weapons so terrifying.

You don't need to hit your target. You can be off by a mile or more, and the damage will still be massive.

And say they target a population center, just for the shock and horror. That's a lot of civilian deaths right away, followed by the after-effects of a nuclear detonation for years.

no... nukes are not for MAD like everyone thinks they're used ahead of massive invasions they're to cripple military installations crippling the opposing nation so they can't launch a counter offensive

ans as i said NK's nukes are tiny they're on the same level as little boy and fatman the only reason they did so much damage in WW2 is because all the buildings were made of wood and paper...

it even says here that the THAAD was tested against re entry vehicles everyone needs to calm their tits

 

[Ramjet]

no... nukes are not for MAD like everyone thinks they're used ahead of massive invasions they're to cripple military installations crippling the opposing nation so they can't launch a counter offensive

ans as i said NK's nukes are tiny they're on the same level as little boy and fatman the only reason they did so much damage in WW2 is because all the buildings were made of wood and paper...

it even says here that the THAAD was tested against re entry vehicles everyone needs to calm their tits

It's called second strike capability...Russian,China,and the US operate Nuclear armed subs that have multiple ICBMs with multiple MIRV's (unlike land based ICBM's neutered to one warhead under the START treaty) waiting for the dead man call...You hit said country's main land,then you'll be welcomed to assured destruction back...

 

[Ramjet]

no... nukes are not for MAD like everyone thinks they're used ahead of massive invasions they're to cripple military installations crippling the opposing nation so they can't launch a counter offensive

ans as i said NK's nukes are tiny they're on the same level as little boy and fatman the only reason they did so much damage in WW2 is because all the buildings were made of wood and paper...

it even says here that the THAAD was tested against re entry vehicles everyone needs to calm their tits

That does not look like an ICBM re-entry vehicle in that video..

 

[SSJ3Mewtwo]

no... nukes are not for MAD like everyone thinks they're used ahead of massive invasions they're to cripple military installations crippling the opposing nation so they can't launch a counter offensive

Nukes are not made specifically for the Mutually Assured Destruction, but the volume of them that have been produced is what brought the MAD scenario about. Once one person starts firing them off, there is the potential that others will too, and the combined numbers of them being launched and detonating could wipe out everyone.

It's not what they were made to do, but it's what could play out due just to the numbers.

That same volume of missiles means that they could easily come down in areas that are not defended by a defense system.

ans as i said NK's nukes are tiny they're on the same level as little boy and fatman the only reason they did so much damage in WW2 is because all the buildings were made of wood and paper...

Detonating a 10-15 kiloton (the approximate destructive potential of Little Boy and Fatman) nuclear weapon in a modern city or town would be absolutely horrific. Cities are filled with metal, glass, and everything else that become shrapnel, along with tall buildings that could not just spray that shrapnel, but also topple over. That said shrapnel would also be composed of materials that would hold radioactivity, spreading the lethal effects of the radiation. Most towns and common construction methods used in modern housing stresses the use of light-weight, easy to build with materials. They would do little to nothing to protect against the force of a nuclear blast, as this old bit of test footage makes very clear:

Maybe it's due to the passage of time or experience with just the modern day, smaller scale stuff, but I don't think you really appreciate what the level of power is in a blast as massive as 10-15 kilotons. And while we don't know exactly what the yield of NK's weapons are, if they have any sort of modern refinements (which apparently they do, since they can use missiles to deliver them) it's entirely possible that they have megaton warhead capability.

And I agree with Ramjet556. The THAAD is a nice option, but that video doesn't show the defense system intercepting a target coming in at reentry speeds. If it can, cool. But THAAD units would still need to be in a position to counter.

 

[GreenZone]

It's called second strike capability...Russian,China,and the US operate Nuclear armed subs that have multiple ICBMs with multiple MIRV's (unlike land based ICBM's neutered to one warhead under the START treaty) waiting for the dead man call...You hit said country's main land,then you'll be welcomed to assured destruction back...

if you say so bud i'm going to stop responding to the thread i'm just going to get pissed off i had to do a course on this shit during training nukes and nuclear warfare are very complicated you do need to do courses to fully understand it and their effects but no everyone's an expert cause they played fallout a couple times read a Wikipedia entry or two and read some fear mongering article in a tabloid news paper

 

[Ramjet]

Upon further research it appears the test done on a RV was for a IRBM,not an ICBM coming in hot from lower earth orbit...

www.thedrive.com: Missile Defense Agency Says THAAD Has Destroyed Its First Mock IBRM

 

[SSJ3Mewtwo]

if you say so bud i'm going to stop responding to the thread i'm just going to get pissed off i had to do a course on this shit during training nukes and nuclear warfare are very complicated you do need to do courses to fully understand it and their effects but no everyone's an expert cause they played fallout a couple times read a Wikipedia entry or two and read some fear mongering article in a tabloid news paper

I was actually qual'd in Chemical, Biological, and Radiological Defense back in my service days, and I was actually in charge of the chem/bio gear for my department

 

[GreenZone]

I was actually qual'd in Chemical, Biological, and Radiological Defense back in my service days, and I was actually in charge of the chem/bio gear for my department

yeah but was that in the past two decades recent? you should know with military you need to update your quals every year or so mewtwo...

 

[SSJ3Mewtwo]

yeah but was that in the past two decades recent? you should know with military you need to update your quals every year or so mewtwo...

Re-upped, sadly no. I got done in 2005. But I did save my materials, and I do look through them every now and then. It's likely just over-paranoia on my part, but given I work in Washington DC I like to have a little preparation in mind for if something truly screwed up occurs while I'm there.

 

[GreenZone]

Re-upped, sadly no. I got done in 2005. But I did save my materials, and I do look through them every now and then. It's likely just over-paranoia on my part, but given I work in Washington DC I like to have a little preparation in mind for if something truly screwed up occurs while I'm there.

fair enough but even in DC if you weren't at ground zero and provided your home wasn't damaged and can be made airtight (and you were able to fill a bathtub full of water) you could ride out the fallout for two weeks or until hazard units come evac you (don't know what they're called in the US the HECU kinda guys from half life they're usually apart of airforce)

 

[SSJ3Mewtwo]

fair enough but even in DC if you weren't at ground zero and provided your home wasn't damaged and can be made airtight (and you were able to fill a bathtub full of water) you could ride out the fallout for two weeks or until hazard units come evac you (don't know what they're called in the US the HECU kinda guys from half life they're usually apart of airforce)

There is no way the average windows of my place would stand up to even the weakest waves of pressure.

Fortunately I don't outright live in the city. I'm well enough away that I'd only be worried about things there while I was actually at work.

But this kinda wanders off the topic of the thread.

Back on topic, yeah, people have very good reason to be concerned about things spiraling out of control with a nuclear power like NK. ICBMs weren't a joke when they were first developed, and they still are no joke now.

 

[Ramjet]

I'm not overly concerned the fat boys gonna do anything..
He knows full well a ICBM launch at anyone will be the end of him and his regime..

He's a dictator,and dictators love keeping power.No way he's going to hand his away to the international community on a silver platter like that..The guy is just looking to keep a kenitic regime change though external forces off the table,keeping in mind the last couple have fallen to that exact fate...

 

[zeroxwolfx]

The only thing I can figure is that they are doing this for attention, possibly UN or food aid? I'm not sure. Due to their latest announcement to "attack Guam", this only furthers my suspicions that they are doing this as some sort of way to get attention, actively announcing where you were going to attack, how and when... I can't imagine anyone, even NK being that stupid, so that can't be their ultimatum.

 

[SSJ3Mewtwo]

I'm not overly concerned the fat boys gonna do anything..
He knows full well a ICBM launch at anyone will be the end of him and his regime..

You would think that, but that's the thought process of someone who is sane.

Kim is not.

And when it comes to insanity, especially insanity that is supported by a government which is structured to regard that insanity as 'divine insight', all cards are on the table. People are right to be worried.