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Think of the children!

Red_Lion _

Member
I was hanging out on campus with a friend of mine today and someone sitting near us brought up the topic of bullying. This woman didn't want her 15 year old son to go to school wearing an MLP hoodie because she was afraid he'd get bullied. She was saying that he could wear it at home but he had to keep his little hobby to himself because other kids might not understand him and she'd rather he not have to deal with being picked on. She seemed to think that he'd thank her later for protecting him from himself and then went on a long spiel about how we have to do everything we can to keep kids safe and make sure they don't make mistakes and attract negative attention. I kind of thought that was bullshit.

Why is it bullshit? Because your kid is gonna get bullied anyway. Your kid will get bullied for being too fat, too tall, too short, too ginger, liking the wrong music, or just for being socially awkward. If someone is determined to bully you there doesn't have to be anything immediately obvious about you, they will find something. If my experience has taught me nothing it is that it's never just about weight, heritage, hair color or height. Those things are just the most obvious targets and they make it easier to "justify" or "rationalize" the bullying in the mind of said bully. Nine times out of ten the person picking on you already hates you, they just need something about you that stands out or that they perceive as a defining trait. Something that they can amplify and try to use to make you feel vulnerable, frightened or ashamed. We can only protect people so much and at some point we need to show them how to survive these things when they inevitably happen. I've been attacked for my sexuality, my appearance and a variety of other things over the years. Heck I got thrown in a dumpster for sitting on the wrong bus seat when I was in high-school. These kids fully knew what they were doing and had the capacity to understand that it was wrong. This shit happens and if someone is going beat up a kid for wearing his MLP shirt to school then maybe instead of teaching your kid to hide you should teach him how to fight. Teenagers might be dumb but they can comprehend that their actions will have reactions and sometimes unjustly negative ones. Prepare them to deal with those reactions and let them decide how they want to handle it. Either to keep hiding or to stand up for themselves.

In an ideal world a kid should be able to wear what he wants with no issues, but we don't, and never will, live in an ideal world. Life is unfair, it will always be unfair. Rather than paint a rose-tinted picture where everyone is entitled to justice and fairness we should accept that reality can be very harsh and ugly for no good reason and brace ourselves to get through the rough patches in our lives as best we can.

Agree, disagree, throw rotten tomatoes at me? What y'all think of this?
 

Kinharia

Drunken Irish Snow Leopard
Bullying should be met with severe punishments in school. Give the kids who are bullied a sense of justice or else you'll only fuel extreme views.
 

Red_Lion _

Member
People can sense weakness and will bully you for that reason only...

Which is true, if you come across as vulnerable toxic people will feed on that.

Bullying should be met with severe punishments in school. Give the kids who are bullied a sense of justice or else you'll only fuel extreme views.

I agree that bullying should have consequences and if you read a student handbook you'd think it does. Bullying is already against the rules and bullies are supposed to be expelled, suspended or otherwise dealt with. But sometimes the adults are as often the problem as the other children and kids need to be prepared for life to be unfair. They need to learn to be wary of toxic adults and learn not to just expect justice because that's the right thing. Optimism is nice but you should never take justice for granted. Adults were an even bigger problem for me than my peers and what they should have done is ultimately irrelevant because they didn't do the right thing. Even so they were obligated by their positions to do so. Learning how to live with injustice is sometimes just as important to survival as fighting to obtain justice.
 

Zerig

So Graceful and Phallic
Banned
Bullying is good for kids.

Teaches them not to be little bitches.
 

Butters Shikkon

Patron Saint of Queers
Suicide is good too. Decreases the surplus population!
 

Zerig

So Graceful and Phallic
Banned
Suicide is good too. Decreases the surplus population!

Well, you know I'm all for free will.

If someone is enough of a punk ass to think killing themselves will help, let 'em.
 

mcjoel

Pepmurrmint Fox
I was bullied in middle school I broke said bullies nose and eye orbit was never bullied again.
So remember kidos violence solves everything. :V
 

Alexxx-Returns

The Sergal that Didn't Vore
I'm not saying bullying is right, but... kids need a way to reflect on what skills and traits they need to work on to get ahead in the world, and to be the person they want to be, and bullying is one way of allowing someone to reflect on this. That sounds like victim blaming, but there's a HUGE difference between violent bullying or the kind of thing that makes a normal kid not want to go to school, and a kid having the piss taken out of them because they walk stooped over or lack the normal social skills of a kid of their age.

When I was in school I had the piss taken out of me a LOT. You know what? I'm fuckin' glad. Because I did all of the above. There were huge flaws in my person that the other kids picked up on and called me out for. I walked stooped over. The nice kids, my friends, wouldn't say anything because they didn't want to hurt my feelings. The bullies took the piss out of me. I was upset. I listened. I IMPROVED MYSELF.

If they'd taken the piss out of me for not having good social skills, that would have been great - because I'd have worked to improve the from an earlier age. Instead they called me a lesbian, which didn't really give me any feedback on how to talk to my female friends... it just made me break away from all my female friends for fear that I would say the wrong thing to them, and now I can't talk to girls at all because I never got the practice.

That's what kids need. They need feedback on how they come across. But kids aren't good at expressing themselves, so it comes out extremely cruelly sometimes. But, I think, in the context of simple piss-taking and name-calling, they can sometimes thank their bullies later on.
 

Kit H. Ruppell

Exterminieren! Exterminieren!
Wearing something like that screams "Tear me apart".
 

Butters Shikkon

Patron Saint of Queers
That sounds like victim blaming

It really does. >.> And it kinda is.

It's ok to criticize, but I think that focusing on bullyculture is really the quickest way to stop situations like yours from happening. My straight best friend was called a lesbian all throughout middle school and it really made her an outcast...as was I for being "gay" and "having sex with my brother" or whatever other horrible things people wanted to say. Even if a person stoops or does something people don't like, it doesn't give them the right to be a dick.

Nobody learns from Columbine. u.u
 

Gator

Uncledaddy
besides, what kinda sperglord gives a shit about somebody liking mlp these days?

but seriously, parents like that are the reason why kids get fucking picked on. they don't teach their kids to stand up for themselves and instead turn them into sensitive little marshmallows who grow up expecting or needing everyone to wipe their ass for them. and when nobody does, it'll go one of two ways.
they'll whine about how they've been #triggered so hard they were bedridden for months, write terrible poetry about it, and go throw themselves into traffic. they become a whole other kind of selfish little punk because they're used to having mama bear keep all the mean nasties away and reassure them that the world is and should always be made of daisies and puppies. if anyone so much as calls them a fat little turd, even without touching them, they can just go cry to mommy about this horrible injustice and she will move 'em to a new school!
and if it's not that, it's a weak little mouse with no confidence who is afraid of not fitting in, and will either become a spineless people-pleaser or an obvious socially-awkard target, because when a kid lacks confidence, the others can smell it from a mile away. that's the most common thing that draws such negative attention, because the other kids KNOW that this one isn't going to stand up for himself. they can do whatever they like and he'll just cringe and cry and that's hilarious. because he's never experienced being picked on or he's been taught not to stand up for himself when he is, but to just try to avoid it in the first place. and that it's just absolutely the worst thing in the world, no one should ever do it, and he shouldn't have to stand up for himself because he shouldn't be experiencing it anyway.

And then when the adults in the situation are the ones doing the bullying or are just refusing to do anything about it, little Junior won't know what to do. Because the real problem is not the kids being shitty to each other, it's the adults being shitty to the kids. Either by sheltering them or by completely ignoring their problems--or by picking on them, themselves, and setting a great example for all the would-be bullies out there.
I'm not saying that kids who pick on other kids shouldn't have consequences. That much should be pretty obvious, and there are already rules in place regarding that sort of thing. But no, I don't think those rules need to be any more harsh than they usually are. They just need to actually be enforced. and in some cases, I think they need to be less harsh, because overreacting to teasing is just as bad as encouraging it. Why should a thirteen-year-old get expelled for calling little Susy fat? That's what thirteen-year-olds do, and being called fat by one of them shouldn't shatter Susy's confidence so greatly that she is now unable to attend school or function normally. If it does, then we've got a much bigger problem on our hands than some rude kids. When typical bullying is THAT big of an issue for the kid in question, it means the adults in their lives are not doing their jobs. Teachers should not be encouraging students to pick on one another, but because students will do that whether you like it or not, parents should not be teaching their kids that bullying is the end of the world and that it's better to just try to fit in or keep quiet than it is to have confidence and learn to deal with it for yourself. It's not that kids don't or shouldn't know better, because they damn well should and if they break the rules, they need to be held accountable with whatever consequences are set in place. But even more so than the kids who are being obnoxious, the adults who are in a position of actual power over these kids need to be a better example. They're the ones those kids are looking up to, the ones who are supposed to teach them how to handle things in life, as well as show them discipline. When they don't do that, you wind up with kids who act like little shitbags, and kids who get caught on the other end of that because they don't know what to do about it.
 

Alexxx-Returns

The Sergal that Didn't Vore
It really does. >.> And it kinda is.

It's ok to criticize, but I think that focusing on bullyculture is really the quickest way to stop situations like yours from happening. My straight best friend was called a lesbian all throughout middle school and it really made her an outcast...as was I for being "gay" and "having sex with my brother" or whatever other horrible things people wanted to say. Even if a person stoops or does something people don't like, it doesn't give them the right to be a dick.

Nobody learns from Columbine. u.u

Like I said, there's a big difference between kicking the shit out of someone, or stealing their stuff, and taking the piss out of them for their flaws.

If what you said was the case, I'd still walk stooped over. Where now there are pictures of me with my friends looking awesome because I am stood up straight, and videos of me walking like anyone else, if I hadn't been allowed to be bullied, these would be an embarrassment to me.

All the girls in my school would call each other babe/sexy/hunz/whatever, but that's because they had the social skills and inflections to pull it off. I, however, did not, so anything I said was taken seriously, and I'm glad I was called out on this so I didn't carry on doing it later on in life.

The only thing I regret is me, and my parents, having the bullies brought to justice for taking the piss out of me, and saying that it was THEIR fault, not mine. Because I really had a lot to learn about myself from them, but I was too ignorant and resistant to see that they were right.
 

Kinharia

Drunken Irish Snow Leopard
From my personal experiences Gator, well at least here in Ireland is that punishments need to
1 - Actually be enforced.
2 - Not just be a tap of the wrist and then let go.
3 - Be harsher
4 - Make the little shits bleed. Teach them to never cause pain again or it'll come back to haunt them. I'd rather everyone be terrified to do anything wrong than feel confident enough to do what they want and get away with it.
 

Mikazuki Marazhu

I hate you all
From my personal experiences Gator, well at least here in Ireland is that punishments need to
1 - Actually be enforced.
2 - Not just be a tap of the wrist and then let go.
3 - Be harsher
4 - Make the little shits bleed. Teach them to never cause pain again or it'll come back to haunt them. I'd rather everyone be terrified to do anything wrong than feel confident enough to do what they want and get away with it.


Didn't know there was a darker side of Ireland. I thought you guys are all ale and drunken dances.
 

Ariosto

New Member
@Gator: I've not read your whole post, but I get the impression you're underrating the strenght words can have on people. Of course, it's not a matter of not teaching to deal with bullies, but why shouldn't Susy cry for being insulted for a reason that is not valid and implies she's less of a person and shouldn't be respected for her body size? Especially if this is a notion that is probably reinforced everywhere else? In most of those cases, there's a social antecedent for the bad reaction to the insult.
 

Kinharia

Drunken Irish Snow Leopard
Didn't know there was a darker side of Ireland. I thought you guys are all ale and drunken dances.

The past 20 years schools have adopted a "be light on everything" policy due to "Rights of the Child" from the EU/United Nations. It has produced a generation of violent, disrespectful children.
 

Butters Shikkon

Patron Saint of Queers
Like I said, there's a big difference between kicking the shit out of someone, or stealing their stuff, and taking the piss out of them for their flaws.

If what you said was the case, I'd still walk stooped over. Where now there are pictures of me with my friends looking awesome because I am stood up straight, and videos of me walking like anyone else, if I hadn't been allowed to be bullied, these would be an embarrassment to me.

All the girls in my school would call each other babe/sexy/hunz/whatever, but that's because they had the social skills and inflections to pull it off. I, however, did not, so anything I said was taken seriously, and I'm glad I was called out on this so I didn't carry on doing it later on in life.

The only thing I regret is me, and my parents, having the bullies brought to justice for taking the piss out of me, and saying that it was THEIR fault, not mine. Because I really had a lot to learn about myself from them, but I was too ignorant and resistant to see that they were right.

Wtf. Am I crazy? Or does this not sound like a battered house wife to anyone else? It truly reminds me of my brother when his bf was abusing him. It's never your fault for what evils a person does to you. Being different doesn't deserve a punishment. Or hell, even displeasing someone doesn't mean you have earned verbal abuse.

Lord Jesus on the Mountain High...your post seriously made me worried. I mean...damn. What if someone was your friend when you walk stooped over? What if they told you this? Would it have changed your mind?
 

Alexxx-Returns

The Sergal that Didn't Vore
Wtf. Am I crazy? Or does this not sound like a battered house wife to anyone else? It truly reminds me of my brother when his bf was abusing him. It's never your fault for what evils a person does to you. Being different doesn't deserve a punishment. Or hell, even displeasing someone doesn't mean you have earned verbal abuse.

Lord Jesus on the Mountain High...your post seriously made me worried. I mean...damn. What if someone was your friend when you walk stooped over? What if they told you this? Would it have changed your mind?

Maybe it is just me then who thanks my bullies for making me a better person. It's all critique, but like I said, kids don't know how to do that properly, so they are fucking cruel.

Now you mention it, my friends DID tell me I was a hunchback. I was sat with them on a table for 4, and they were writing each other little notes and sniggering. Call me paranoid, but I knew the notes were about me. I asked to read them. They tore them up and threw them in the bin. I got them out of the bin and pieced them together. They remarked on how heavy my school bag was, saying "she'll break her back! No wonder people call her a hunchback!" And as a footnote, "She looks AWFUL when she's eating!"

I rememeber being upset at the time, but I'm honestly glad I could find out from someone, because I don't walk stooped over any more, and I don't eat disgustingly any more. NO ONE is gonna tell their friend that they are a hunchback or that they look disgusting when they eat, and I appreciate that, because I've been in that position too. A friend of mine had some kind of problem, and she smelled really fucking bad, all the time. EVERYONE made fun of her as soon as she left the room, but I wasn't gonna fucking say "hey, dude.... you smell of fish, like.... all the time." No one would do that. Maybe she found out for herself the same way I found out about my flaws and was able to do something about it.

I'm not saying that BULLYING someone is right. But kids just don't KNOW how to get a point across any other way. It's to be expected.

E. Yeah, if someone is genuinely HAPPY as they are, and even when they are in their 20's, they will be happy with how they turn out if they keep being the person that they are then the piss-taking should be discouraged. But who's to say that because we are happy with ourselves at 14, that we would like ourselves having the same mannerisms at 22? I know I wouldn't, and I'm so glad my experiences changed me.

Wearing a MLP hoodie is, well.... I'm not sure. Yeah, it's definitely wrong to bully someone for wearing a MLP hoodie. But if that kid was to catch others taking the piss out of them, they have 2 courses of action:
- Realise for themself, that they want to fit in and not be mocked, and not wear the hoodie any more.
- Realise that the other kids are assholes for mocking them for their clothing, and keep wearing the hoodie.

I say realise for both scenarios, because BOTH scenarios are perfectly valid. It totally depends on the person, and what they as an individual want to change about themselves - after realising that the other kids are mocking them for it.

Actually that's a good way of explaining my point. I've been mocked before for being fat (I wasn't even that fat, I was just chubby), but I thought "fuck them, they're an asshole, I love my body". I've been mocked for having no social skills and for having no friends, and thought "wow, is this how people see me? Damn, I need to change myself." It's all about what that person wants from themself.
 
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Butters Shikkon

Patron Saint of Queers
Maybe it is just me then who thanks my bullies for making me a better person. It's all critique, but like I said, kids don't know how to do that properly, so they are fucking cruel.

Now you mention it, my friends DID tell me I was a hunchback. I was sat with them on a table for 4, and they were writing each other little notes and sniggering. Call me paranoid, but I knew the notes were about me. I asked to read them. They tore them up and threw them in the bin. I got them out of the bin and pieced them together. They remarked on how heavy my school bag was, saying "she'll break her back! No wonder people call her a hunchback!" And as a footnote, "She looks AWFUL when she's eating!"

I rememeber being upset at the time, but I'm honestly glad I could find out from someone, because I don't walk stooped over any more, and I don't eat disgustingly any more. NO ONE is gonna tell their friend that they are a hunchback or that they look disgusting when they eat, and I appreciate that, because I've been in that position too. A friend of mine had some kind of problem, and she smelled really fucking bad, all the time. EVERYONE made fun of her as soon as she left the room, but I wasn't gonna fucking say "hey, dude.... you smell of fish, like.... all the time." No one would do that. Maybe she found out for herself the same way I found out about my flaws and was able to do something about it.

I'm not saying that BULLYING someone is right. But kids just don't KNOW how to get a point across any other way. It's to be expected.

This whole post made me so sad. Kids are a lot smarter than people expect. I'd expect violent behavior from kids who are in preschool...but not a 10-17 year olds. That's the time they have to learn to be civilized.

Also, I have never wanted to give someone a hug on a forum before (I'm a bad furry)...but today I must admit, I wish I could to you.
 
I see both sides to this. On one hand, the parent is right; it is kind of putting a target on the kid's back, and I don't blame the parent for warning the kid. On the other, we shouldn't have to bend over backwards to be as anonymous and generic as possible just to avoid being bullied.

To say that I'm a better person from being bullied would be absolute and total horse shit. If anything it's turned me into an outwardly emotionless android. They've got nothing to pick up on that way.
 
A

Amiir

Guest
Parents should teach their kids to use violence when necessary. Someone punches you? You punch them right back. I hate seeing oppressors getting away with the shit they pull off.
If bullies exist it's because of weaklings who just let themselves be won without even putting up a fight. If you are a healthy, fully capable person and allow someone to pick on you for your tastes, for who you are it's all on you. The fault is yours for not fighting back. You have the chance to make yourself justice, so do it. No one will ever do it for you.

How do I wish someone would just try and bully me so I have an excuse to beat them. I long for the fight but unfortunately I will have to limit myself to just answering back. I'm 18 now, I'm an adult. I could potentially badly injure someone. I have much self control but I really, really wish to have a good fist fight and punch some annoying dick face in the eye. I must overcome this and be at peace with myself

This makes me think of my past experiences, of how I have been isolated by my class. Not bullied, but isolated. I was somehow different than the rest of my class and they isolated me for it. They mocked me too. At the time I was very insecure and I regret not having taken the opportunity to make myself be respected. Only after a burst of rage did they stop mocking me. Since then, only isolation. I like to think that they did because they were somehow afraid of me but I'm probably giving myself too much credit.

So I'm reconsidering what I wrote. In the end what is at the root of bullying is this: kids are too insecure and do not realize the actual power they have to stop whatever bothers them. It's their parents' job to teach them that.
 
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Forgot to touch on this earlier, but I never ever ever endorse violence. Sorry, no. "Beat somebody up to get them to do what you want them to do" is the bully's mentality; turning it against the bully doesn't make it alright. Life isn't a Popeye Cartoon where we can just punch things that make us mad. We can't expect kids to fight it out as youngsters and then do an about-face the moment they turn 18.
 

Alexxx-Returns

The Sergal that Didn't Vore
Forgot to touch on this earlier, but I never ever ever endorse violence. Sorry, no. "Beat somebody up to get them to do what you want them to do" is the bully's mentality; turning it against the bully doesn't make it alright. Life isn't a Popeye Cartoon where we can just punch things that make us mad. We can't expect kids to fight it out as youngsters and then do an about-face the moment they turn 18.

Exactly this. It's great when schools sit kids down and try and get them to talk their dispute out civilly.

I'm not saying this happens in all schools, hell, probably not in many at all. It happened in mine, and that was a good thing.
 
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