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Top 5 Feminist Fails

You're a feminist?

  • Yes? -Drop dead...

    Votes: 9 34.6%
  • No. -Carry on...

    Votes: 17 65.4%

  • Total voters
    26
L

Lasvicus

Guest
Don't worry, that's never going to happen, especially when we're still concerned about what a woman was wearing when she legitimately and unquestionably assaulted. Of course men kinda put themselves in this predicament in the first place, the most prominent issue in the feminist movement is not persecuting men who rape, its that the rapes are occurring in the first place. If so many rapes didn't occur then when a woman said she was raped it'd be like saying there was a flying whale outside. People have been fighting for their rights for all of known history, just because it didn't have a name doesn't mean it didn't exist. And not everyone is legally entitled to the same rights, everyone should be but not everyone is.
Well, in a magical world, a woman could walk on the sidewalk completely naked without fear of getting cat-called or getting assaulted. But this isn't a magical world. A woman wearing bandaids for a top and floss for a bottom, drinking and and grinding against every other guy in a club inviting everyone who can hear her to come have a taste shouldn't be surprised when something actually goes down. That's the more extreme end of the spectrum, but still. If it's not available, don't put it on display. And I mean that for men too.
 

LindyHop

Bring me my brown pants!
Well, in a magical world, a woman could walk on the sidewalk completely naked without fear of getting cat-called or getting assaulted. But this isn't a magical world. A woman wearing bandaids for a top and floss for a bottom, drinking and and grinding against every other guy in a club inviting everyone who can hear her to come have a taste shouldn't be surprised when something actually goes down. That's the more extreme end of the spectrum, but still. If it's not available, don't put it on display. And I mean that for men too.

Historically nudity in climates that permitted it was quite normal until the Europeans came by and considered it crude, you'll still find nudity the norm in places where the (now) western ideals has completely taking over. For some reason breasts and butts have been sexualized when that's only the secondary function of breasts. I'm not sure how butts became a sexual thing. Besides, rape isn't about sex, its about power, dominance, and humiliation.

Being catcalled is not the same as being stoned, its a mild annoyance but not lethal or scary. What's scary is when men follow you and are persistent even after you've turned them down several times, even when you're dressed head to toe.
 
L

Lasvicus

Guest
Historically nudity in climates that permitted it was quite normal until the Europeans came by and considered it crude, you'll still find nudity the norm in places where the (now) western ideals has completely taking over. For some reason breasts and butts have been sexualized when that's only the secondary function of breasts. I'm not sure how butts became a sexual thing. Besides, rape isn't about sex, its about power, dominance, and humiliation.

Being catcalled is not the same as being stoned, its a mild annoyance but not lethal or scary. What's scary is when men follow you and are persistent even after you've turned them down several times, even when you're dressed head to toe.
And historically, Europeans often considered pale skin to be more beautiful than tan skin, for a few different reasons. So looking BACKWARDS and saying, in this time, in this place, it was fine, doesnt really do anything for today. Different people, different culture, different place, different time. Though you are right in saying that the human body was sexualized, and it wasnt so much EUROPEAN as it was CHRISTIAN. I wrote a paper about this pertaining specifically to ancient Rome.
Honestly, if you think men don't rape because they think it's hot you need to rethink xD
There ARE power heavy dudes out to assert their dominance, but if nothing else, BDSM should prove the existence of a form of sexuality which is derived from rape and whatever pleasure a rapist might seek in the act thereof.
 

LindyHop

Bring me my brown pants!
And historically, Europeans often considered pale skin to be more beautiful than tan skin, for a few different reasons. So looking BACKWARDS and saying, in this time, in this place, it was fine, doesnt really do anything for today. Different people, different culture, different place, different time.
Honestly, if you think men don't rape because they think it's hot you need to rethink xD
There ARE power heavy dude out to assert their dominance, but if nothing else, BDSM should prove the existence of a form of sexuality which is derived from rape and whatever pleasure a rapist might seek in the act thereof.

Touche, you got me there, although we still have that whole pale skin is better than dark skin problem going on today, but that's a topic for another thread. I guess what I'm trying to say is that in a day in age where we think we're more progressive why people get their nipples in a knot over an exposed boobie. And think that seeing that exposed boobie gives them a right to that boobie, thats like if I thought that everytime someone opened a cash register I could reach in and take some money. That's not my money, I didn't earn it, that's not your boobie, you didn't earn it.
 
L

Lasvicus

Guest
Touche, you got me there, although we still have that whole pale skin is better than dark skin problem going on today, but that's a topic for another thread. I guess what I'm trying to say is that in a day in age where we think we're more progressive why people get their nipples in a knot over an exposed boobie. And think that seeing that exposed boobie gives them a right to that boobie, thats like if I thought that everytime someone opened a cash register I could reach in and take some money. That's not my money, I didn't earn it, that's not your boobie, you didn't earn it.
But does anyone really EARN a boobie? xD
And people do just reach over and take that cash, but how many people turn around and blame it on a culture that supposedly "promotes" that theft? And who, pray tell, would be stupid enough to wave a stack of $100 bills around in peoples' faces in the hood? No one, and even if someone DID do that, they would get robbed. So using that same analogy, why would anyone wave around parts of their body which have been sexualized in the faces of hot and bothered people who find that bit VERYYYY attractive?
 

LindyHop

Bring me my brown pants!
But does anyone really EARN a boobie? xD
And people do just reach over and take that cash, but how many people turn around and blame it on a culture that supposedly "promotes" that theft? And who, pray tell, would be stupid enough to wave a stack of $100 bills around in peoples' faces in the hood? No one, and even if someone DID do that, they would get robbed. So using that same analogy, why would anyone wave around parts of their body which have been sexualized in the faces of hot and bothered people who find that bit VERYYYY attractive?

Lmao, a bit TMI here but my partner always says to me "You earned this dick" so I'm assuming you can earn a boobie too. And I can tell you anyone who's got benjamins in the hood is probably also packin' heat. But maybe I'm disillusioned because I lived in Philly, lots of gun violence there. And I'm not talking about flaunting it but even if they did that no excuse to not have some self-control.
 
L

Lasvicus

Guest
Lmao, a bit TMI here but my partner always says to me "You earned this dick" so I'm assuming you can earn a boobie too. And I can tell you anyone who's got benjamins in the hood is probably also packin' heat. But maybe I'm disillusioned because I lived in Philly, lots of gun violence there. And I'm not talking about flaunting it but even if they did that no excuse to not have some self-control.
I wont disagree with that, but knowing what's more likely to happen if you do something, and in the case that this something happens when you did what you knew would make that something more likely TO happen, I think you at least have to accept SOME responsibility. People lock their cars for a reason, it might not stop anyone, but it is your responsibility to take every measure you can to ensure the security OF your car. If you leave it open, you have to accept SOME responsibility.
 

LindyHop

Bring me my brown pants!
I wont disagree with that, but knowing what's more likely to happen if you do something, and in the case that this something happens when you did what you knew would make that something more likely TO happen, I think you at least have to accept SOME responsibility. People lock their cars for a reason, it might not stop anyone, but it is your responsibility to take every measure you can to ensure the security OF your car. If you leave it open, you have to accept SOME responsibility.

I live on an island near a major city that people consider to be sketchy, people here don't lock their car doors and leave their car windows open. I often think it'd be so easy to steal that especially since I'm a relatively unknown entity, but I don't and it's partially because I don't know how to drive but it's mostly because i know the difference between right and wrong and most other people do too.

But on a side note it actually gives me anxiety that people don't lock their stuff around here, it's such a foreign concept to me that people aren't worried about being robbed.
 
L

Lasvicus

Guest
I live on an island near a major city that people consider to be sketchy, people here don't lock their car doors and leave their car windows open. I often think it'd be so easy to steal that especially since I'm a relatively unknown entity, but I don't and it's partially because I don't know how to drive but it's mostly because i know the difference between right and wrong and most other people do too.

But on a side note it actually gives me anxiety that people don't lock their stuff around here, it's such a foreign concept to me that people aren't worried about being robbed.
Well, in the instance that one of their cars IS robbed, who bears 100% of the responsibility? Is it not divided?
I mean, even if that's a norm where you are, do you really have much right to bitch and moan when someone take something of yours, which you took no measure to protect? I know this analogy has turned into less of an analogy and more of a question of whether or not someone should lock their cars xD
 

LindyHop

Bring me my brown pants!
Well, in the instance that one of their cars IS robbed, who bears 100% of the responsibility? Is it not divided?
I mean, even if that's a norm where you are, do you really have much right to bitch and moan when someone take something of yours, which you took no measure to protect? I know this analogy has turned into less of an analogy and more of a question of whether or not someone should lock their cars xD

I'm gonna be honest, if you don't lock your door purposely and someone steals it I do consider it your fault especially since it takes less than a second with the beep-beep which most cars have today. I don't know the proper word for the device. But when use as an analogy while it makes sense my hang up is that you can't compare a person to an object, I mean you can, but one has more worth than the other in my eyes.
 
L

Lasvicus

Guest
I'm gonna be honest, if you don't lock your door purposely and someone steals it I do consider it your fault especially since it takes less than a second with the beep-beep which most cars have today. I don't know the proper word for the device. But when use as an analogy while it makes sense my hang up is that you can't compare a person to an object, I mean you can, but one has more worth than the other in my eyes.
Should one not take extra precautions to protect that which is more valuable then? xD
I mean, one wouldn't give the same level of security to protect a grain of sand as a brick of solid gold, no?
 

LindyHop

Bring me my brown pants!
Should one not take extra precautions to protect that which is more valuable then? xD

Nah, you make it so obviously unguarded that it guards itself, people will be like "this is too damn easy" and leave it alone.
 
L

Lasvicus

Guest
Nah, you make it so obviously unguarded that it guards itself, people will be like "this is too damn easy" and leave it alone.
Except when they don't xD
Which in itself is the problem at hand, no?
 

LindyHop

Bring me my brown pants!
Except when they don't xD
Which in itself is the problem at hand, no?

Yeah, not with people, but with cars you'd have to be crazy. Like If I saw a car with no one around and the door so obviously unlocked and open I'm taking the longest widest path around that thing because something's not kosher.
 

inactive

Well-Known Member
when people see fit to try and insult me by trying to label me as a feminist, then turn around and bitch and moan about labels in general, and that same person CLINGS to the feminist label... I see a problem.

I'm guessing you were referring to me?

1) I wasn't trying to insult you.
2) Yes, I don't give a shit about labels. I thought something you said was patently false, based on the definition of a word which I thought I was familiar with. I don't think it's a big deal, though, so perhaps I should have refrained from posting that dictionary link.
3) I don't think you know me well enough to know whether or not a cling to the feminist label. However, similar to the way you've met a few people who gave you a bad impression of feminism, I have a few great friends who call themselves feminists. If I read someone talking about how all feminists should die, I'm going to voice my disapproval.
 

inactive

Well-Known Member
It looks like this thread has morphed into actual discussion, so I'll (try to) either stay on topic or step out.

On the subject of women (or whoever) inviting assault/rape/etc. by being scantily clad in public:

- I think it is wise of people to take precautions and avoid major risks when possible.
- I think it sucks that we have to talk about going out in public as being high-risk.
- I think rapists have no excuses for their actions, and I don't think anyone should be justifying the actions of rapists.
 

LindyHop

Bring me my brown pants!
It looks like this thread has morphed into actual discussion, so I'll (try to) either stay on topic or step out.

On the subject of women (or whoever) inviting assault/rape/etc. by being scantily clad in public:

- I think it is wise of people to take precautions and avoid major risks when possible.
- I think it sucks that we have to talk about going out in public as being high-risk.
- I think rapists have no excuses for their actions, and I don't think anyone should be justifying the actions of rapists.

True, and I agree with you 100% but unfortunately our world is broken and you gotta play the hand your dealt with and hope the next one is better
 
L

Lasvicus

Guest
I'm guessing you were referring to me?

1) I wasn't trying to insult you.
2) Yes, I don't give a shit about labels. I thought something you said was patently false, based on the definition of a word which I thought I was familiar with. I don't think it's a big deal, though, so perhaps I should have refrained from posting that dictionary link.
3) I don't think you know me well enough to know whether or not a cling to the feminist label. However, similar to the way you've met a few people who gave you a bad impression of feminism, I have a few great friends who call themselves feminists. If I read someone talking about how all feminists should die, I'm going to voice my disapproval.
It was in general, sweet cheeks. And whether or not you were TRYING to insult me, I do view it as an insult. But moving on.
 
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L

Lasvicus

Guest
It looks like this thread has morphed into actual discussion, so I'll (try to) either stay on topic or step out.

On the subject of women (or whoever) inviting assault/rape/etc. by being scantily clad in public:

- I think it is wise of people to take precautions and avoid major risks when possible.
- I think it sucks that we have to talk about going out in public as being high-risk.
- I think rapists have no excuses for their actions, and I don't think anyone should be justifying the actions of rapists.
We're humans. We have a long history of trying to drive each other into extinction despite being of the same race.
So naturally, coexisting with other humans IS something of a risk. We can sit here and debate on whether or not we should HAVE to be careful walking down the street, but in the end, we do. That probably won't ever change, because again, we're all humans here. And some of us just suck. Rape can't truly be justified, but if there is a measure which one can take to prevent it from happening to them, they have a responsibility to themselves to TAKE that precaution, and they lose the right, I think, to blame something happening to them (entirely) on someone else when they DIDN'T take the aforementioned precaution in the first place.
 
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L

Lasvicus

Guest
Now a bit off topic but as a black woman I have to respond to your to your but about the #blacklivesmatter movement. Most protests are still peaceful, but they're killing us at an alarming rate and getting away with it and we're scared. I've been conditioned over the years to stand a certain way, smile always, speak a certain way, censor what I do and say, make myself as non-threatening as possible because of the color of my skin. I went to a town where people proudly displayed the confederate flag and a 6 foot tall man looked visibly scared and avoided me because I'm black. I've walked down the streets of Philly and been called a n*gger, I've overheard the comment "what a waste of a good man" because my partner happens to be white. I'm doubly afraid of going places by myself because I'm a woman and I'm black, there are states I don't think n I'd ever set foot in because of the marked racism. There are bad eggs in the movement but I think we have a right to be angry and while I don't advocate violence I don't see how people can get their titties in a twist when we fight back when other attacked first.
Back to an older point, when the majority of ALL crimes against African Americans are committed by OTHER African Americans, one would have cause to say that if you're dying off at an alarming rate, it has little to do with anyone OTHER than African Americans.
You've been called the N word? Ive been called the C word and pushed against a wall by an African American because I "looked at him funny" which had nothing to do with his race, but rather, I'm just socially awkward.
Racism doesn't exist solely as the tool of the "white man." Which brings me into my second point, sort of, which regards the publicity OF racism against African Americans. We live in a time when a black man can run over a child, and NOT have people making any more of it than what it really is. A tragedy. But heaven forbid a white man hit a black kid with a car, people would FLOCK to the scene, screaming that the man is a racist. People would demand that a monument be built to "honor" the young boy and it would get blown up to the point where people half way around the world would recognize the names of the people involved. We live in a time when a group of black supremacists can march into a college library and disrupt the studies of students who are ACTUALLY interested in learning, and verbally assaulting them, even making racist remarks. Then later going on to demand racial segregation, albeit on a small scale. So no, to hell with Black Lives Matter.
 
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inactive

Well-Known Member
We're humans. We have a long history of trying to drive each other into extinction despite being of the same race.
So naturally, coexisting with other humans IS something of a risk. We can sit here and debate on whether or not we should HAVE to be careful walking down the street, but in the end, we do. That probably won't ever change, because again, we're all humans here. And some of us just suck. Rape can't truly be justified, but if there is a measure which one can take to prevent it from happening to them, they have a responsibility to themselves to TAKE that precaution, and they lose the right, I think, to blame something happening to them (entirely) on someone else when they DIDN'T take the aforementioned precaution in the first place.

Yeah, I agree that some people just suck, and that it will probably always be the case.

I think 'responsibility' is a strong word there, but I get what you mean enough to where I shouldn't make a fuss of that. Did your apartment get completely ransacked after the front door was left unlocked? You probably should have locked your doors if you didn't want to chance having your stuff stolen. I agree with that.

Sticking for with the same analogy for a sec, though: someone (on these forums, actually) mentioned to me how amazing it is that, because of where they're living currently, they don't have to worry about locking their doors. There's no danger in that regard. I'm sure some of the people there still suck, but they don't steal. Or if they do, everyone else would notice and it would turn against them horribly, because nobody there does that shit.

That's what I mean to get at when I say that it'd be rad if going out in public didn't have to be considered high-risk. It'd be really, really nice to live in a place where, no matter what sex someone is or how they're dressed or how they walk or whether or not they have a bodyguard, they wouldn't have to worry about running into a stranger who doesn't understand (or just doesn't care) what consent means.
 
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L

Lasvicus

Guest
Yeah, I agree that some people just suck, and that it will probably always be the case.

I think 'responsibility' is a strong word there, but I get what you mean enough to where I shouldn't make a fuss of that. Did your apartment get completely ransacked after the front door was left unlocked? You probably should have locked your doors if you didn't want your stuff stolen. I agree with that.

Sticking for with the same analogy for a sec, though: someone (on these forums, actually) mentioned to me how amazing it is that, because of where they're living currently, they don't have to worry about locking their doors. There's no danger in that regard. I'm sure some of the people there still suck, but they don't steal. Or if they do, everyone else would notice and it would turn against them horribly, because nobody there does that shit.

That's what I mean to get at when I say that it'd be rad if going out in public didn't have to be considered high-risk. It'd be really, really nice to live in a place where, no matter what sex someone is or how they're dressed or how they walk or whether or not they have a bodyguard, they wouldn't have to worry about running into a stranger who doesn't understand (or just doesn't care) what consent means.
Well, in that analogy, it's not always that someone just leaves their door unlocked. Sometimes people leave their door wide open. Which would bring me back to a previous phrase. "If it's not available, don't put it on display." xD
 

inactive

Well-Known Member
That's the same thing, man. Even if the front door is left open, that doesn't mean everyone else is suddenly entitled to take whatever they want from inside. It just means the owner didn't take all of the precautions they could have to prevent thieves from doing their thing.
 
L

Lasvicus

Guest
That's the same thing, man. Even if the front door is left open, that doesn't mean everyone else is suddenly entitled to take whatever they want from inside. It just means the owner didn't take all of the precautions they could have to prevent thieves from doing their thing.
Maybe not, but would logic not dictate that if you want something protected, you PROTECT IT?
You can skip towards the end of this one to get the point I want to get across here xD
 
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inactive

Well-Known Member
A woman wearing bandaids for a top and floss for a bottom, drinking and and grinding against every other guy in a club inviting everyone who can hear her to come have a taste shouldn't be surprised when something actually goes down.

I don't think it matters what the person is wearing, or whether or not they've been drinking. Again, that doesn't entitle others to do something immoral/illegal.

The grinding thing might actually be different, as that could kinda sorta be considered giving consent. I haven't thought about it much. Now, that still doesn't justify anything if someone else starts having their way with the person, despite screams of "no" and constant struggling. But still, this is different enough from just dressing a certain way to make me think twice about it.

This isn't the only kind of situation, though. There are real people who seriously risk - or "shouldn't be surprised," in your words - something horrible happening just by going to a bar alone, or by walking down a side road as the sun has started setting. It sucks. It would be much better if things were different. And, there might just be something we can do as a society to make things different, eventually.
 
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