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Top 5 Feminist Fails

You're a feminist?

  • Yes? -Drop dead...

    Votes: 9 34.6%
  • No. -Carry on...

    Votes: 17 65.4%

  • Total voters
    26

inactive

Well-Known Member
You can skip towards the end of this one to get the point I want to get across here xD

Saying that catcalling and being stoned to death are "the same thing" is real dumb. I hope it was just a poor choice of words, but I don't know the lady, so I can't give her the benefit of the doubt.

The interviewer there strawmanned her a couple times and gave her a non-answer when asked what she thinks is the best solution to changing westernized culture for the better. Just sayin'.

But if the point you're trying to get across is that the girl holding up the sign said something really dumb, I completely agree.

If you're saying that all feminists are the same and can all be represented by the person in the video, I don't agree.
 
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Lasvicus

Guest
I don't think it matters what the person is wearing, or whether or not they've been drinking. Again, that doesn't entitle others to do something immoral/illegal.

The grinding thing might actually be different, as that could kinda sorta be considered giving consent. I haven't thought about it much. Now, that still doesn't justify anything if someone else starts having their way with the person, despite screams of "no" and constant struggling. But still, this is different enough from just dressing a certain way to make me think twice about it.

This isn't the only kind of situation, though. There are real people who seriously risk - or "shouldn't be surprised," in your words - something horrible happening just by going to a bar alone, or by walking down a side road as the sun has started setting. It sucks. It would be much better if things were different. And, there might just be something we can do as a society to make things different, eventually.
Well that example WAS on the more extreme end of the spectrum. But regardless of whether one person is entitled to do something, there are people who will do it ANYWAY. And doing something that puts you at GREATER risk of someone doing that something to you is personally irresponsible. It's called being realistic. Not optimistic, not pessimistic, it's not wishful thinking or a prayer or good luck bad luck. It's stopping for a second to be objective and acknowledge a risk, and acting accordingly. Don't walk alone at night in a bad neighborhood. That rule applies to everyone, I think. You might get raped, you might get robbed, you might even get shot or shanked. It's common sense, I wasn't brought up in a bad neighborhood, but I was taught these things growing up. Don't do stupid shit. It's a wonderful, universal rule of life.
 
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Lasvicus

Guest
Saying that catcalling and being stoned to death are "the same thing" is real dumb. I hope it was just a poor choice of words, but I don't know the lady, so I can't give her the benefit of the doubt.

The interviewer there strawmanned her a couple times and gave her a non-answer when asked what she thinks is the best solution to changing westernized culture for the better. Just sayin'.

But if the point you're trying to get across is that the girl holding up the sign said something really dumb, I completely agree.

If you're saying that all feminists are the same and can all be represented by the person in the video, I don't agree.
I'll save you the trouble, there's another video with JUST that part I wanted seen.
 

Spazzlez

Simply One Hell of a Pokemon Master
I guess I should put my two cents in and give my opinion. By the way this is an opinion so don't murder me over it.
Do I call myself a feminist? No, far from it actually. Do I care if others identify as one? No, not even once.
I call myself an egalitarian, someone who is for the equality of all (or most) humankind. I believe modern feminism is a movement made out of insecurity and fear-mongering. Feminists proclaim to spread body positivity, but when someone who is slim and/or attractive appears they go haywire and attack said person. Not to mention video games, who cares if a girl is sporting themselves a big pair of knockers, I just want to play the game. Everyone wants to be represented in some way regardless of what they're criticizing. Remember Deadpool? After its release, SJWs everywhere said it didn't represent the pan/omnisexual crowd. Deadpool being omnisexual, was dating a girl in the film. The creator of Deadpool didn't take kindly to this and stated that Deadpool's sexual interest is a momentary thing, one minute he's attracted to one thing then a moment passes. In the end, believe what you want to. Don't listen to some furfag with too much time on his hands online tell you what to believe.
 
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Lasvicus

Guest
I guess I should put my two cents in and give my opinion. By the way this is an opinion so don't murder me over it.
Do I call myself a feminist? No, far from it actually. Do I care if others identify as one? No, not even once.
I call myself an egalitarian, someone who is for the equality of all (or most) humankind. I believe modern feminism is a movement made out of insecurity and fear-mongering. Feminists proclaim to spread body positivity, but when someone who is slim and/or attractive appears they go haywire and attack said person. Not to mention video games, who cares if a girl is sporting themselves a big pair of knockers, I just want to play the game. Everyone wants to be represented in some way regardless of what they're criticizing. Remember Deadpool? After its release, SJWs everywhere said it didn't represent the pan/omnisexual crowd. Deadpool being omnisexual, was dating a girl in the film. The creator of Deadpool didn't take kindly to this and stated that Deadpool's sexual interest is a momentary thing, one minute he's attracted to one thing then a moment passes. In the end, believe what you want to. Don't listen to some furfag with too much time on his hands online tell you what to believe.
Egalitarian. That's one I've never heard. Tell me more, senpai @-@
And thank you xD
 

Fallowfox

Are we moomin, or are we dancer?
Well this thread is an utter train wreck. I generally agree with @Spazzlez

Egalitarian. That's one I've never heard. Tell me more, senpai @-@
And thank you xD

I am surprised you have not heard of egalitarianism. It essentially posits that equal opportunities and treatment should be presented to people without regard for their identity, such as their sex or race.
 

inactive

Well-Known Member
Well that example WAS on the more extreme end of the spectrum. But regardless of whether one person is entitled to do something, there are people who will do it ANYWAY. And doing something that puts you at GREATER risk of someone doing that something to you is personally irresponsible. It's called being realistic. Not optimistic, not pessimistic, it's not wishful thinking or a prayer or good luck bad luck. It's stopping for a second to be objective and acknowledge a risk, and acting accordingly. Don't walk alone at night in a bad neighborhood. That rule applies to everyone, I think. You might get raped, you might get robbed, you might even get shot or shanked. It's common sense, I wasn't brought up in a bad neighborhood, but I was taught these things growing up. Don't do stupid shit. It's a wonderful, universal rule of life.

Yeah, there are bad neighborhoods in the States and other places, where anyone who's on foot is running a decent risk of something bad happening. I still say that sucks, but it is indeed a fact of life and will be for the foreseeable future.

There is always some level of risk involved (and you might have mentioned this already) as soon as you take a step out the door of your place of living. Again, I think it sucks. Again, I think it's possible that things could be made better, to some degree. But there are some risks that will always be there. You could get in a car accident when someone else's brakes fail. That's nobody's fault, and it can't be made better (save some futuristic mode of transportation or something).

It's when we get to exactly what risks are unnecessary and should never be taken by anyone where we're more likely to reach some different thoughts and opinions. A friend of mine was heading to a bathroom at a bar once, and without any kind of solicitation, some stranger tried to make a pretty sketchy advance on her. Yes, she can learn from that and take some steps to avoid that kind of situation in the future. I just wouldn't classify going to a public facility (other than a club, or somewhere where sexual activity is known to be highly common) and meeting certain physical criteria as "doing stupid shit."
 

inactive

Well-Known Member
@Spazzlez - respectfully put. As someone who doesn't really venture out on the internet outside of FAF and a couple of other really niche forums, I'm rarely exposed to people talking about that kind of thing (fuss raised about video games, Deadpool). Interesting thoughts, and I thank you for sharing.

@Fallowfox - is it a trainwreck? I thought there's been some pretty good discussion.
 

Fallowfox

Are we moomin, or are we dancer?
@Spazzlez - respectfully put. As someone who doesn't really venture out on the internet outside of FAF and a couple of other really niche forums, I'm rarely exposed to people talking about that kind of thing (fuss raised about video games, Deadpool). Interesting thoughts, and I thank you for sharing.

@Fallowfox - is it a trainwreck? I thought there's been some pretty good discussion.

The thread includes convoluted assertions such as 'movements cannot be good or bad', when they most certainly can.

I think the movement of feminism can be characterised as one preoccupied with minutia and with a generally blinkered perspective that posits that women are always in a state of oppression by an ephemeral patriarchy.

That's why, when faced with a world where there is vast sexual inequality in the arab world, modern feminists choose to petition universities to sack Nobel laureate scientists for making distasteful comments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Hunt#Resignations_and_reappointments

These are, in general, people more preoccupied with the shape of barbies dolls and imaginary characters in films, than they are with real travesties, such as female genital mutilation. :\
 
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Lasvicus

Guest
The thread includes convoluted assertions such as 'movements cannot be good or bad', when they most certainly can.

I think the movement of feminism can be characterised as one preoccupied with minutia and with a generally blinkered perspective that posits that women are always in a state of oppression by an ephemeral patriarchy.

That's why, when faced with a world where there is vast sexual inequality in the arab world, modern feminists choose to petition universities to sack Nobel laureate scientists for making distasteful comments: Tim Hunt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These are, in general, people more preoccupied with the shape of barbies dolls and imaginary characters in films, than they are with real travesties, such as female genital mutilation. :\

A chess piece cannot inherently be good or bad, but the person behind it can be.
Nor can it move in a good or bad direction on it's own, but the person BEHIND it can move it in a good or bad direction.
 
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Fallowfox

Are we moomin, or are we dancer?
A chess piece cannot inherently be good or bad, but the person behind it can be.
Nor can it move in a good or bad direction on it's own, but the person BEHIND it can move it in a good or bad direction.

Ehhhh I don't think this analogy describes what a movement is.

For example, we would all agree that a movement to judge people by the colour of their hair is stupid, regardless of what its members are doing they subscribe to a silly idea, and that a movement that aimed to convert all the heathens into furries is fundamentally excellent.
 
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Lasvicus

Guest
Ehhhh I don't think this analogy describes what a movement is.

For example, we would all agree that a movement to judge people by the colour of their hair AB is stupid, regardless of what its members are doing they subscribe to a silly idea, and that a movement that aimed to convert all the heathens into furries BC is fundamentally excellent.
I went ahead and named those movements that you provided as examples. And I would say that for your assertion to actually make sense, you would have to assume that the AB movement has and always WILL promote the judgement of hair color. Was the animated representation of the female ass a top priority for feminists in the 70's? No, the people WITHIN the feminist movement of TODAY are making an issue of it, and fast forward 30 some odd years (assuming the feminist movement still exists) they'll probably be making issues of DIFFERENT things.
You would ALSO have to assume that no one here is an idiot. Because, as in all things, there are always people who ARE idiots, and might very well seek to join the AB movement and spit at the people in the BC movement.
 
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Somnium

The Sparklewolf
Banned
If we allow women to continue spreading their bullshit propaganda we will soon be ashamed of being Men. Brothers, we have to stop it, we are the ones who build this world and we have the strength to shape it in our way! Black people told us they only wanted to be equal too and look what we got now, white guilt, you can't even hit a damn N without being labeled racist. Pathetic.
 
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Lasvicus

Guest
If we allow women to continue spreading their bullshit propaganda we will soon be ashamed of being Men. Brothers, we have to stop it, we are the ones who build this world and we have the strength to shape it in our way! Black people told us they only wanted to be equal too and look what we got now, white guilt, you can't even hit a damn N without being labeled racist. Pathetic.
Ok that N bit was a no-no. Just, no. Though the general idea BEHIND your statement, I can agree with. And men's strength? The goal here (or at least SHOULD be) is equality. Which would imply that men and women TOGETHER shape the world into something better, no?
 

Fallowfox

Are we moomin, or are we dancer?
If we allow women to continue spreading their bullshit propaganda we will soon be ashamed of being Men. Brothers, we have to stop it, we are the ones who build this world and we have the strength to shape it in our way! Black people told us they only wanted to be equal too and look what we got now, white guilt, you can't even hit a damn N without being labeled racist. Pathetic.


^ This sort of comment is what I'm taking about when I describe this thread as a trainwreck.
 

Somnium

The Sparklewolf
Banned
Ok that N bit was a no-no. Just, no. Though the general idea BEHIND your statement, I can agree with. And men's strength? The goal here (or at least SHOULD be) is equality. Which would imply that men and women TOGETHER shape the world into something better, no?

Of course together, women are great at supporting men. I see you're too afraid to call a cunt N, black propaganda is working. If the black dude was cool why the f would you want to hit him in the first place
 
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Lasvicus

Guest
Of course together, women are great at supporting men. I see you're too afraid to call a cunt N, black propaganda is working. If the black dude was cool why the f would you want to hit him in the first place
This isn't a thread to vent racism and sexism. Take it elsewhere.
 

Fallowfox

Are we moomin, or are we dancer?
Of course together, women are great at supporting men. I see you're too afraid to call a cunt N, black propaganda is working. If the black dude was cool why the f would you want to hit him in the first place

This is bait, people.
 

Somnium

The Sparklewolf
Banned
These posts were a joke, don't take them seriously, I don't have anything against women or other races.
 

Spazzlez

Simply One Hell of a Pokemon Master
For those who don't know: Egalitarianism is the social, political, and economical belief that everyone regardless of what they are, is equal. I believe everyone is equal yet different. (Of course the end of this was a bit obvious)
 

Z-Mizz

Monkey Magic c(^o^)ɔ
For those who don't know: Egalitarianism is the social, political, and economical belief that everyone regardless of what they are, is equal. I believe everyone is equal yet different. (Of course the end of this was a bit obvious)
Learn something new everyday. There's a word for every other equal rights belief, so why not one that encompasses everything. I love it :3

The problem with labels, movements, or any group in general is that, in essence, the actions of the individuals in those group dictate the perception of the whole. What makes this even worse is that America has developed a societal view that the individual is more important than the whole in a country that has the most diverse and varying make-up of races, beliefs, cultures, etc. So I can understand anyone's displeasure at being labeled.

Getting more into movements I'd have to say that all previous statements on the topic hold some truth. I believe movements, in their initial incarnation, can be good, bad, or neutral. But that movements initial objectives can be changed based on the actions of the individuals of that group. Something that starts with well intentions can always become warped into something completely different. Feminism, for example, way back in history (if it was even called such back then) had actual goals of equality in mind: voting rights, equal work opportunities and equal pay, to name a few. Compare that to today's movements and they seem a bit more... skewed as far as leveling the bar goes. We already have an established judicial system, but when it comes to asking for that system to be altered, for the sake of any given party it isn't about equal rights anymore: it's about exclusive rights. This is an example of a movement and it's perception being affected by the actions of individuals.

On the topic of risk and personal responsibility: people have become way too comfortable blaming others for the things that happen to them. I don't mean to say that they shouldn't blame others. People do fucked up stuff. All the time. But with that being known, some people still take no responsibility to be cautious in certain situations. Yes, you shouldn't be looked at or thought of in a certain way based on the way you dress. But, why would you wear something that is viewed in a certain way, if you don't want the perception that comes with it? This goes for actions as well. The other side of the coin on this matter though is that we have developed a society that has these predetermined views towards things. And by we I mean the media: from the social to the official news. But I don't even want to get into that.
 
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Lasvicus

Guest
FINALLY, I can respond here.
It seems the discussion got side-tracked by SOMEONE'S racist and sexist "bait."
I still stand by my assertion that every movement is inherently neutral, it's the people WITHIN the movement that take it in a good or bad direction. And if a movement lasts long enough, it will see a great many different kinds of people, who would take it in as many different directions. Be they good or bad.
And I agree with @Z-Mizz in saying that people dress a certain way, KNOWING what it says and what it means in this culture, and doing it BECAUSE of what it says. But then those same people are completely SHOCKED when someone expresses an attraction to them in their state of dress, and "protest" this by turning around and dressing even MORE provocatively.
 
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ProxFox

Guest
This thread is just a big summation as to why I don't do gender politics. I still care about issues that are gender specific but this whole radfem vs rad anti-fem turf war has become really tiring. Not to mention that both sides hate me, radfems because I have a penis and don't apologize for it, and rad anti-dens because I'm a 'non-binary tumblr SJW'.

It's just a big waste of time that does nothing. Meanwhile actual activists for civil rights are making real progress whilst radicals just scream at each other over the Internet in an un-ending game over who can demonize who the most.

Every time I come across one of these I get some examples of why I should dislike the other side (by the way showing the most extreme examples of an ideology you're against is super lazy because you can do that for literally anything) but I see no reasons as to why I should join the side of the person showing me these examples. By this point both sides look like such shit that I will write off anyone who is heavily on either side. And also I think they should all shut the fuck up and maybe we could do things but that'd be a miracle.

You people need to get lives and maybe actually do something about these issues you claim to care so much about.

Also I really just want to use the internet again without being asked about my political beliefs, thank you. I'm just here to have a good time but man all this drama gets in the way.

Anyways you probably think I'm just a feminist that need to 'drop dead' (that's very tasteful by the way, when making a case it's always important that you make sure you let everyone know that you thing everyone who disagrees should die) so I guess I'll just leave it at this.

I'm just so fucking frustrated. Also one last reminder that extreme examples of stupid people in an ideology aren't prof of an ideology being bullshit.
 
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