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Admin Review: Toxicity

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The Matte-Black Cat

Dark/Psychic-Timid Nature-Often lost in thought
You have your "bullies", "internet trolls", people who cause harassment, people who get jealous, people who want to cause emotional harm that exist in this world. Toxic individuals that enjoy doing this.

My question is Why? Why do people feed off of tormenting others? I waste my time wondering about it, but I can't Understand how someone actually Enjoys being disliked.

What do you think? You think it's their upbringing or so? You think they've been tormented or something, causing them to do the same thing? I mean I've been tormented by my brothers years ago (one lost his mind to Schizophrenia, but the other one stopped and we're on decent terms now), but I don't feel the need to get off of hurting other people. But then again, everyone reacts differently to everything. I just wonder why. There's literally no benefit to it, in my opinion.
 

_Ivory_

Well-Known Member
You have your "bullies", "internet trolls", people who cause harassment, people who get jealous, people who want to cause emotional harm that exist in this world. Toxic individuals that enjoy doing this.

My question is Why? Why do people feed off of tormenting others? I waste my time wondering about it, but I can't Understand how someone actually Enjoys being disliked.

What do you think? You think it's their upbringing or so? You think they've been tormented or something, causing them to do the same thing? I mean I've been tormented by my brothers years ago (one lost his mind to Schizophrenia, but the other one stopped and we're on decent terms now), but I don't feel the need to get off of hurting other people. But then again, everyone reacts differently to everything. I just wonder why. There's literally no benefit to it, in my opinion.
Nah they do it because they like it not because they had some traumatic experiences. People like that is always appreciated by the others but the victim. Most of the people find it funny. And those bullies dont understand and DO NOT CARE about the other persons feelings.
 

Rayd

profound asshole
cause it's fun. my entire social circle is pretty much revolved around fucking with people online. the way we/myself see it as, people are fucked up to us, and we're just a bunch of social outcasts anyway, so why not have some fun with society? though we have done some pretty extremely fucked up stuff in the past that i partially regret. we're a lot more tame now, but we still trace back to our roots occasionally. probably the best friends i've ever had, honestly. i have no shame talking about it either, because as toxic as they are, they've treated me far better than anyone outside my family ever has. i'd gladly have more toxic fun if it meant it was with them.

imo, it's rarely attributed to mental health or upbringing. that's just a coincidence. most of the time it's just getting back at people for being an outcast or being apart of the wrong (or in their eyes, the right) crowd.
 

HistoricalyIncorrect

Well-Known Member
Just like the Aprilycan said it is fun. Me and my friends do exactly the same. Others will try to bully us and so we are not any better. Very often though if someone is nice, so we are and often even I am embarassed for my friend which with responses look like a complete idiot. This mainly limits to games though. When socialising I tend to joke and poke people but usually with a limits. Yet sometimes it is simply impossible to be nice to others.

Like this one time on one discord server. This place is a complete circle jerk. I wanted to be nice to others but most of them gave no shit about it. One guy finally crossed the line when he called me a cunt for no reason and his gf (i think) backed him up and even told me "I do not have to take your art request" as if it was my fault. Well her art was quite bad and overpriced anyway.
Well then i started to be the jackass and because I have years of experience in it. Entire server turned into shit ocean in few days.

So as you can see, how am I not supposed to be an asshole?
 

Rayd

profound asshole
Just like the Aprilycan said it is fun. Me and my friends do exactly the same. Others will try to bully us and so we are not any better. Very often though if someone is nice, so we are and often even I am embarassed for my friend which with responses look like a complete idiot. This mainly limits to games though. When socialising I tend to joke and poke people but usually with a limits. Yet sometimes it is simply impossible to be nice to others.

Like this one time on one discord server. This place is a complete circle jerk. I wanted to be nice to others but most of them gave no shit about it. One guy finally crossed the line when he called me a cunt for no reason and his gf (i think) backed him up and even told me "I do not have to take your art request" as if it was my fault. Well her art was quite bad and overpriced anyway.
Well then i started to be the jackass and because I have years of experience in it. Entire server turned into shit ocean in few days.

So as you can see, how am I not supposed to be an asshole?
honestly, me and my friends did things to people unprovoked. there were times where we were correct in our ways, though (which includes exposing catfishers and bullying them off their accounts, bullying known pedophiles, defending people from other bullies and pretty much ruining sociopaths' lives.)

but yeah. most of the time we were just doing stuff to innocent people from communities we hated (the furry fandom happens to be one). we've done things that are so fucked up that i'm not sure whether or not i should classify it as life-ruining, mental/emotional ruination or the complete destruction of online credibility.

we're bad people, no doubt about it. no amount of good we've done even remotely amounts to the amount of bad we've done. it's been a good few years since we've done anything really fucked up though, and we all look back on the REALLY fucked up shit very poorly.

but we're good to eachother, and that's all that matters.
 

HistoricalyIncorrect

Well-Known Member
honestly, me and my friends did things to people unprovoked. there were times where we were correct in our ways, though (which includes exposing catfishers and bullying them off their accounts, bullying known pedophiles, defending people from other bullies and pretty much ruining sociopaths' lives.)

but yeah. most of the time we were just doing stuff to innocent people from communities we hated (the furry fandom happens to be one). we've done things that are so fucked up that i'm not sure whether or not i should classify it as life-ruining, mental/emotional ruination or the complete destruction of online credibility.

we're bad people, no doubt about it. no amount of good we've done even remotely amounts to the amount of bad we've done.

but we're good to eachother, and that's all that matters.
If you only knew what we did in a past and yes, very often unprovoked. We still do but depends where as I said
 

Rayd

profound asshole
If you only knew what we did in a past and yes, very often unprovoked. We still do but depends where as I said
maybe we should share war-stories sometime. i'm a bit afraid of sharing them here for obvious reasons.
 

KimberVaile

Self congratulatory title goes here
There was a time where I used to do it, the trolling I mean. Sometimes I'd liken it to personal vigilantism, others times, for no reason other than not liking people, and other times, because of a general disdain for societal norms. An act of rebellion if you will.
It doesn't justify the behavior though, eventually I realized I couldn't keep dwelling in the such a viciously negative cycle.

I've never really lost touch with or smothered my negative emotions, but I did find a good balance between my negative and positive feelings without needing to resort to that sort of trolling.
 

quoting_mungo

Well-Known Member
Some bullies do have shitty home lives, or have gone through something highly stressful or traumatic, and acting out against others is a way of regaining control. Some are people who feel like having been bullied in the past gives them a right to pass that on to a new generation of victims (in my experience, this is how many groups that practice heavy hazing justify the practice).

Some people have an imperfect understanding of people on the Internet being real people - sort of analogous to how small children are developmentally unable to grasp that people other than themselves have wants, needs, and feelings. So being a jerk on the Internet and receiving an "amusing" response is not much different to them from beating up some sod in a video game for the fun of it. This is something that in my experience applies predominantly to preteens or very young teens. Most people grow out of this to at least some degree as they hit the realization that no, really, these are actual people, not some abstract concept of a person with no real feelings. Some people hit that realization and go the other way - since trolling people on the Internet is fun(ny), doing the same in person is just as much so.

Like, I did some dumb shit in chats when I was like 10-11 (over 20 years ago, so the availability of Internet services was vastly different); the worst was probably happening to run across someone from my old hometown when in a chat room along with my younger brother, and convincing them to go out to "meet us" at a designated spot. At the time, I found it hilarious that we'd been able to trick them into going out to meet us when we obviously wouldn't be there. In hindsight, I realize that I interrupted someone else's good time (hanging out in a chat room) for my own amusement, and that it was shitty to do so. Because I matured and started to grasp that these are real people with real feelings behind the screennames.

My brother is 19 months younger than I. It's only barely in the last few years that he's toned down his IRL trolling, and I know he was trolling people online at least into his twenties. To him, causing strife and sparking arguments is funny. He's argued in favor of ethnic cleansing just to get under our mother's skin. He's started dumb ethical arguments in the car with family when I was still a student driver, which escalated to a point where I basically stopped the car and told him and my father that if they did not stop bickering they would be walking (like 2-4 miles) home. He would be hurtful for the sake of being hurtful to a point where I will no longer attend family functions at any relatives' other than my parents' if he's also going.

And sometimes, of course, cyberbullying is RL bullying or drama spreading into cyberspace. Which is its own kind of terrible, and often (but not always) seems to be connected to cattiness and rumormongering more than traditional more direct bullying.

cause it's fun. my entire social circle is pretty much revolved around fucking with people online. the way we/myself see it as, people are fucked up to us, and we're just a bunch of social outcasts anyway, so why not have some fun with society? though we have done some pretty extremely fucked up stuff in the past that i partially regret. we're a lot more tame now, but we still trace back to our roots occasionally. probably the best friends i've ever had, honestly. i have no shame talking about it either, because as toxic as they are, they've treated me far better than anyone outside my family ever has. i'd gladly have more toxic fun if it meant it was with them.

imo, it's rarely attributed to mental health or upbringing. that's just a coincidence. most of the time it's just getting back at people for being an outcast or being apart of the wrong (or in their eyes, the right) crowd.
Bonding over being cruel to other people is not a healthy way to form a relationship. I'm not saying these people might not treat you well, or that they might not be good friends to you, but your "toxic fun" can cause real harm, directly or indirectly, and that you've formed a friendship centered around it is frankly worrying. You cannot guarantee that the only people hurt by your "getting back at people" are the people who've treated you badly. Lashing out at random people because you're "social outcasts" isn't exactly a good way to become less of an outcast.

Being unapologetically "bad people" and holding up treating each other well as some kind of virtue that makes up for it is... The two have no relation. Being nice to your friends is what a decent friend does. Being a decent friend doesn't excuse being a jerk in other social interactions. I'm great to my pets, but that makes it no less wrong if I decide to go throw pebbles at the dog down the block when it's out in its yard. One has no bearing on the other.

So as you can see, how am I not supposed to be an asshole?
Because, as you yourself kind of showed, it only makes things worse. You deciding to be an asshole on that Discord server, instead of just leaving and finding a less hostile one, only served to turn it into "shit ocean," as you put it. How does that make you better than them? (Hint: It doesn't.) How is that improving anything?
All you're accomplishing is making a hostile space more hostile.
 

ConorHyena

From out of the rain.
I despise trolling, and I don't think that if you're being trolled you have the right to troll back. An eye for an eye makes the world blind.

I also have no patience for people who are cruel to innocents unprovoked. I personally find that type of behaviour abhorrent. There is absolutely no excuse to vent bad emotions on innocents.

I have, however, engaged in what might be termed as "academic trolling" (at least to the internet generation). I have a penchant for playing advocatus diaboli in academic discussions, especially when everyone's the same opinion. But this is done solely to spark academic discourse, and only done in real life, and never done to hurt anyone. There have been situations where someone took me for face value, even though I was taking up a position that was not my own, and where this action has caused grief for them. I immediately ceased my behaviour and apologized, as actually hurting someone is not the objective of this behaviour.
 

KimberVaile

Self congratulatory title goes here
Because, as you yourself kind of showed, it only makes things worse. You deciding to be an asshole on that Discord server, instead of just leaving and finding a less hostile one, only served to turn it into "shit ocean," as you put it. How does that make you better than them? (Hint: It doesn't.) How is that improving anything?
All you're accomplishing is making a hostile space more hostile.

In HistoricallyIncorrect's case, I understand where he is coming from. If a group of people treat you like absolute shit, they've lost the kiddie glove treatment. If they cast stones, they have no right to complain when you cast stones back.
One singular personal ethos or set of principles isn't going to work for everyone. The give respect until disrespected ethos is perfectly valid.

For some people, their lives are alot less hurtful when they aren't constantly a doormat, and them adopting any other ehtos would just make them a miserable and sad person, speaking from personal experience.
 

Rayd

profound asshole
Bonding over being cruel to other people is not a healthy way to form a relationship. I'm not saying these people might not treat you well, or that they might not be good friends to you, but your "toxic fun" can cause real harm, directly or indirectly, and that you've formed a friendship centered around it is frankly worrying. You cannot guarantee that the only people hurt by your "getting back at people" are the people who've treated you badly. Lashing out at random people because you're "social outcasts" isn't exactly a good way to become less of an outcast.

Being unapologetically "bad people" and holding up treating each other well as some kind of virtue that makes up for it is... The two have no relation. Being nice to your friends is what a decent friend does. Being a decent friend doesn't excuse being a jerk in other social interactions. I'm great to my pets, but that makes it no less wrong if I decide to go throw pebbles at the dog down the block when it's out in its yard. One has no bearing on the other.

you may have missed my point. we're in our own world, pretty much. we've shown at countless points that as long as we have each other, we don't care what people think of us. i've never met nor observed any other social-circle so caring for the people inside of it. doing what we did and still sometimes do is how we had our fun. it's not how (most) of us met, nor is it how we spend most of our time. what i'm trying to say is that we're legitimate friends. i didn't mention us not doing it as often anymore as some sort of moral barrier, cause at that point i wouldn't have ever posted on this thread. i have no credibility to defend, here.

we're all varying degrees of misanthropic, myself included. i can guarantee that 95% of the people we "hurt" are the people that were intended just for being apart of a community we loathe. we very rarely ever did what we did outside of communities we hated, so our targets were hit almost every time.

your morals are different than mine and i know i'm in the minority as far as that goes, but it's my group. they came during a time where i didn't fit in anywhere else and i'm very glad i met them. i still have trouble fitting in anywhere else to this day, so i rely on them a lot.
 

HistoricalyIncorrect

Well-Known Member
maybe we should share war-stories sometime. i'm a bit afraid of sharing them here for obvious reasons.
Same here really. I even wanted to mention that. Feel free to dm me when you feel like it
 

HistoricalyIncorrect

Well-Known Member
Some bullies do have shitty home lives, or have gone through something highly stressful or traumatic, and acting out against others is a way of regaining control. Some are people who feel like having been bullied in the past gives them a right to pass that on to a new generation of victims (in my experience, this is how many groups that practice heavy hazing justify the practice).

Some people have an imperfect understanding of people on the Internet being real people - sort of analogous to how small children are developmentally unable to grasp that people other than themselves have wants, needs, and feelings. So being a jerk on the Internet and receiving an "amusing" response is not much different to them from beating up some sod in a video game for the fun of it. This is something that in my experience applies predominantly to preteens or very young teens. Most people grow out of this to at least some degree as they hit the realization that no, really, these are actual people, not some abstract concept of a person with no real feelings. Some people hit that realization and go the other way - since trolling people on the Internet is fun(ny), doing the same in person is just as much so.

Like, I did some dumb shit in chats when I was like 10-11 (over 20 years ago, so the availability of Internet services was vastly different); the worst was probably happening to run across someone from my old hometown when in a chat room along with my younger brother, and convincing them to go out to "meet us" at a designated spot. At the time, I found it hilarious that we'd been able to trick them into going out to meet us when we obviously wouldn't be there. In hindsight, I realize that I interrupted someone else's good time (hanging out in a chat room) for my own amusement, and that it was shitty to do so. Because I matured and started to grasp that these are real people with real feelings behind the screennames.

My brother is 19 months younger than I. It's only barely in the last few years that he's toned down his IRL trolling, and I know he was trolling people online at least into his twenties. To him, causing strife and sparking arguments is funny. He's argued in favor of ethnic cleansing just to get under our mother's skin. He's started dumb ethical arguments in the car with family when I was still a student driver, which escalated to a point where I basically stopped the car and told him and my father that if they did not stop bickering they would be walking (like 2-4 miles) home. He would be hurtful for the sake of being hurtful to a point where I will no longer attend family functions at any relatives' other than my parents' if he's also going.

And sometimes, of course, cyberbullying is RL bullying or drama spreading into cyberspace. Which is its own kind of terrible, and often (but not always) seems to be connected to cattiness and rumormongering more than traditional more direct bullying.


Bonding over being cruel to other people is not a healthy way to form a relationship. I'm not saying these people might not treat you well, or that they might not be good friends to you, but your "toxic fun" can cause real harm, directly or indirectly, and that you've formed a friendship centered around it is frankly worrying. You cannot guarantee that the only people hurt by your "getting back at people" are the people who've treated you badly. Lashing out at random people because you're "social outcasts" isn't exactly a good way to become less of an outcast.

Being unapologetically "bad people" and holding up treating each other well as some kind of virtue that makes up for it is... The two have no relation. Being nice to your friends is what a decent friend does. Being a decent friend doesn't excuse being a jerk in other social interactions. I'm great to my pets, but that makes it no less wrong if I decide to go throw pebbles at the dog down the block when it's out in its yard. One has no bearing on the other.


Because, as you yourself kind of showed, it only makes things worse. You deciding to be an asshole on that Discord server, instead of just leaving and finding a less hostile one, only served to turn it into "shit ocean," as you put it. How does that make you better than them? (Hint: It doesn't.) How is that improving anything?
All you're accomplishing is making a hostile space more hostile.
Hehe that's pretty funny. 80% of that server was hostile and shit and who said I wanted to be better than them? Actually exact opposite, I wanted to show them how bad things can get if wrong person gets provoked and if you will think about it? They got a serious kick in their shitter so maybe now they have learned the lesson?
Remember that you do not know what happened or what I did but I can assure you that everything I wanted to happen, happened.

I eventually left that server but left a mark ^^

P.s - Once you change the perspective, even concrete can get soft
 

KimberVaile

Self congratulatory title goes here
Hehe that's pretty funny. 80% of that server was hostile and shit and who said I wanted to be better than them? Actually exact opposite, I wanted to show them how bad things can get if wrong person gets provoked and if you will think about it? They got a serious kick in their shitter so maybe now they have learned the lesson?
Remember that you do not know what happened or what I did but I can assure you that everything I wanted to happen, happened.

I eventually left that server but left a mark ^^

P.s - Once you change the perspective, even concrete can get soft

They were adults, and as is the common adage, adults are expected to take responsibility.
It follows then, that they'd need to take responsibility for their shitty decorum.
 

HistoricalyIncorrect

Well-Known Member
They were adults, and as is the common adage, adults are expected to take responsibility.
It follows then, that they'd need to take responsibility for their shitty decorum.
For once I will agree with you Kimby-boy ^^
 

quoting_mungo

Well-Known Member
In HistoricallyIncorrect's case, I understand where he is coming from. If a group of people treat you like absolute shit, they've lost the kiddie glove treatment. If they cast stones, they have no right to complain when you cast stones back.
One singular personal ethos or set of principles isn't going to work for everyone. The give respect until disrespected ethos is perfectly valid.

For some people, their lives are alot less hurtful when they aren't constantly a doormat, and them adopting any other ehtos would just make them a miserable and sad person, speaking from personal experience.
In my opinion it becomes a question of proportional response, and to some degree adherence to one's own stated ideals. Saying that casting stones is wrong and then turning around and doing it because someone else started it comes across as hypocritical to me. Maybe the person who cast the first stone has no right to complain about getting tit for tat, but that doesn't mean you're not sinking to their level and (IMO) violating your stated values by doing so.

It's possible to stand up for yourself without engaging in behavior you profess to disapprove of. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with giving respect until disrespected, only pointing out that responding to the neighbor throwing trash in your yard by emptying a garbage truck into their yard and turning it into a sea of sewage isn't a proportionate, consistent, or constructive response.

If you're going to be a miserable, sad person unless you can hit back manifold when people treat you badly, it may be time to look into therapy.
 

HistoricalyIncorrect

Well-Known Member
In my opinion it becomes a question of proportional response, and to some degree adherence to one's own stated ideals. Saying that casting stones is wrong and then turning around and doing it because someone else started it comes across as hypocritical to me. Maybe the person who cast the first stone has no right to complain about getting tit for tat, but that doesn't mean you're not sinking to their level and (IMO) violating your stated values by doing so.

It's possible to stand up for yourself without engaging in behavior you profess to disapprove of. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with giving respect until disrespected, only pointing out that responding to the neighbor throwing trash in your yard by emptying a garbage truck into their yard and turning it into a sea of sewage isn't a proportionate, consistent, or constructive response.

If you're going to be a miserable, sad person unless you can hit back manifold when people treat you badly, it may be time to look into therapy.
I can also say that it might be a good time to grow the spine instead of looking for a theraphy.

I will give you one example. @KimberVaile will know what I mean.
There was this one manipulative person once, he is also on FAF. Everything had to be done his way, he was ready to fuck everything up for you for his own profits. You just want to have fun with everyone but each time you mention or adress the issue the manipulator (Let's name him a Cunt) will throw tantrums and cause the scene and absolutely nothing will work (Even losing a friend, yes this happened). What worked? Kicking his teeth in (metaphorically of course)

So yes, I can say that growing a pair is much better way to sort things out than being a forever omega. Try it
 

KimberVaile

Self congratulatory title goes here
In my opinion it becomes a question of proportional response, and to some degree adherence to one's own stated ideals. Saying that casting stones is wrong and then turning around and doing it because someone else started it comes across as hypocritical to me. Maybe the person who cast the first stone has no right to complain about getting tit for tat, but that doesn't mean you're not sinking to their level and (IMO) violating your stated values by doing so.

It's possible to stand up for yourself without engaging in behavior you profess to disapprove of. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with giving respect until disrespected, only pointing out that responding to the neighbor throwing trash in your yard by emptying a garbage truck into their yard and turning it into a sea of sewage isn't a proportionate, consistent, or constructive response.

If you're going to be a miserable, sad person unless you can hit back manifold when people treat you badly, it may be time to look into therapy.

I never said casting stones was even inherently wrong. The idea is that you treat others with the same respect they afford you. So this "it's hypocritical" stance is rather ludicrous.
It doesn't violate any values to treat somebody as they treat you. Simple premise, simple ethos.

Also, you're exaggerating quite a bit, responding to snarky comments with proportionally snarky comments seem fine by me.
If not being a doormat 24/7 is a call for 'needing therapy' you'd probably be the one to benefit from it most. Has to be the most narrow minded view of the world I think I ever heard. Was pushed to suicidal thoughts with how badly I was abused by my 'turn the other cheek' attitude. And you're going to tell me that ethos I have now, which keeps me in a contented and happy mental state is a call for therapy? Get real. As if you lived my experiences and have the authority to tell me what I need in my life.

Whole reply was nothing but sanctimonious hogwash and finger wagging.
 
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HistoricalyIncorrect

Well-Known Member
I never said casting stones was even inherently wrong. The idea is that you treat others with the same respect they afford you. So this "it's hypocritical" stance is rather ludicrous.
It doesn't violate any values to treat somebody as they treat you. Simple premise, simple ethos.

Also, you're exaggerating quite a bit, responding to snarky comments with proportionally snarky comments seem fine by me.
If not being a doormat 24/7 is a call for 'needing therapy' you'd probably be the one to benefit from it most. Has to be the most narrow minded view of the world I think I ever heard. Was pushed to suicidal thoughts with how badly I was abused by my 'turn the other cheek' attitude. And you're going to tell me that ethos I have now, which keeps me in a contented and happy mental state is a call for therapy? Get real. As if you lived my experienced and have the authority to tell me what I need in my life.

Whole reply was nothing but sanctimonious hogwash and finger wagging.
You are male Kimber and we can not change the evolution. Man has to be competative in a simple dominance race. Losing it to shit like that WILL put you to suicidal tendencies as I also went through it.
So no instead of turning other cheek, simply fight back when you have to.
 
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