• Fur Affinity Forums are governed by Fur Affinity's Rules and Policies. Links and additional information can be accessed in the Site Information Forum.

Trouble Ticket Policy for Site Admins?

Shireton

Member
Statements from both Yak and Dragoneer elsewhere indicate that their biggest problem with this issue is PR. Their biggest concern is PR. Priorities are all messed up. Responsibility dictates that one resolves the issue first, then worries about PR after.

Maybe that's not the case, but it has the definite appearance that it is. The only information available supports irresponsible behaviour on their part, like usual. Ironically, quick appropriate action would accomplish positive PR.

Their biggest concern is PR? I wouldn't have guessed from how awful it is these days.
 
T

TakeWalker

Guest
Their biggest concern is PR? I wouldn't have guessed from how awful it is these days.

The extreme aversion to all things drama is a part of this. It's becoming clear, avoiding drama, while a noble end, is not a good way to run a site.
 

Arshes Nei

Masticates in Public
Just updating the thread, we were given a policy and a minimum.

Yes, there is a 10 day period.

Personally I still find it unfair that they get this chance, if they really want to make it up to the staff they should be doing double the minimum each week.
I am curious to see who is going to do their share.
 

Redregon

Banned
Banned
Just updating the thread, we were given a policy and a minimum.

Yes, there is a 10 day period.

Personally I still find it unfair that they get this chance, if they really want to make it up to the staff they should be doing double the minimum each week.
I am curious to see who is going to do their share.

in all reality, i'm more hoping that they stick with their duties than being sacked. if this is what's needed to "put the fear" into them and they then are consistent in doing what they're supposed to, i would consider that a better option (since, well, if they are sacked immidiately, that's still leaving more for the rest to do to keep on top of things while their replacements are trained... assuming that there are replacements found to fill their spaces.)

though, i do hope that they're on a sort of "probation" kinda deal. kinda like "one more slip up and you're out" (and it's not just an empty threat.)
 

AshleyAshes

Arcade Snowmew Of Doom
Just updating the thread, we were given a policy and a minimum.

Yes, there is a 10 day period.

Personally I still find it unfair that they get this chance, if they really want to make it up to the staff they should be doing double the minimum each week.
I am curious to see who is going to do their share.

It's also worth wondering how many times they can slip and go 'Sorry' without any real reprocutions.
 

Pi

Member
It's also worth wondering how many times they can slip and go 'Sorry' without any real repercussions.

Last I checked, as an organization, the policy has been 'oops sorry' for 6 years and counting.
 

Arshes Nei

Masticates in Public
in all reality, i'm more hoping that they stick with their duties than being sacked. if this is what's needed to "put the fear" into them and they then are consistent in doing what they're supposed to, i would consider that a better option (since, well, if they are sacked immidiately, that's still leaving more for the rest to do to keep on top of things while their replacements are trained... assuming that there are replacements found to fill their spaces.)

though, i do hope that they're on a sort of "probation" kinda deal. kinda like "one more slip up and you're out" (and it's not just an empty threat.)

It's not that I don't mind more help, it's that their inaction for 2 years made it a corrosive effect in morale. That builds resentment because now you have people feeling an unfair balance in the system.
 

Kantress

Member
My personal feeling is that any administrator who cannot fulfill their duties should resign. However, keeping internal matters confidential is one of these duties.

You can't have your cake and eat it. If you disagree with the boss, your choice is to suck it up, or to leave. Don't try to publicly hold them to ransom.

I think perhaps the reason she chose to take this publically was privately nudging him was doing jack shit, and she figured trying a public route rather than quitting would be more beneficial. That being said, I see no real changes made either way. Dragoneer refused to address us commoners on this thread, and his policy is crap and just more forgiveness.

Actually, that brings me to something you said, Arshes. You said if he didn't apologize by last night (which he kinda did, and, again, was private) and fire inactive staff by today (which he has NOT done) you'd strike. I'm gathering from what you've been saying that the strike's off?
 

Arshes Nei

Masticates in Public
Honest answer:

I'm hesitantly giving the 10 day period over a try. If he does not get rid of inactive staff or we see mediocrity, it's likely discussions for a strike would be done. As I said on my journal I'm willing to work with him and give him that chance. I was more stern because I don't appreciate staff members being threatened.

In a sense an HR role has been placed on me because I seem to be doing this on behalf of staff. Please note this is not my official role But being the head forum admins means I'm the training manager in a sense since these people become main site admins. I can't do much about appointees that skip the process.
 

Arshes Nei

Masticates in Public
I don't want this topic zapped in the process because you feel like dumping extra stuff here. It's one of the few that has stayed focused to the topic, so don't start that stuff here please
 

Corto

Member
This thread is actually interesting to read, please don't derail it.
EDIT: That includes comments about me deleting the off-topic posts, in case it wasn't obvious.
 
Last edited:

MandertehPander

That backstabbing betch.
So legitimate question, when are the outstanding tickets going to be answered?

I have several dating back to as far as December, one in November even. :/

Should I just refile them all so they finally get answered?
 

quoting_mungo

Well-Known Member
Just updating the thread, we were given a policy and a minimum.

Yes, there is a 10 day period.

Personally I still find it unfair that they get this chance, if they really want to make it up to the staff they should be doing double the minimum each week.
I am curious to see who is going to do their share.

Is there a reason the admin code of conduct is not public? Dragoneer originally gave the impression that it would be, and honestly I'd be a lot more comfortable as a user if I had a way of seeing what expectations the staff was supposed to live up to. Or is this a separate policy from the code of conduct 'Neer promised would be written?
 

Redregon

Banned
Banned
It's not that I don't mind more help, it's that their inaction for 2 years made it a corrosive effect in morale. That builds resentment because now you have people feeling an unfair balance in the system.

good point. a toxic workplace isn't fun. still, were i in your shoes i'd not let them forget that they're on thin ice... (assuming that they are on it for their position.)

So legitimate question, when are the outstanding tickets going to be answered?

I have several dating back to as far as December, one in November even. :/

Should I just refile them all so they finally get answered?

agreed... i've been submitting some that haven't been touched for a while... i would bet i don't have the oldest ticket on site though. (makes me wonder if we should have a pool... who has the oldest ticket that's untouched and how long will it stay that way?)
 

Summercat

Former Motterator
Oldest ticket untouched? This year, IIRC.

We're eating through our backlog, and if things hold out, half of them will be gone in a week.
 

Freehaven

Dammit.
This is going to be my last post in this thread. So I'm gonna get this all off my chest while I'm in the mood.

Arshes, Witchie, et al.: I give you credit and support for coming forward when you felt threatened by Dragoneer and saying "We will not be treated like this." I support your decision to hold Dragoneer accountable for his actions instead of just letting him get away with treating you like garbage, and I also support your decision to formulate an administrative strike should circumstances push you towards that action. The admins who do their jobs deserve to keep them, and said admins don't deserve to be treated like trash just because you speak up when you take issue with something other admins or Dragoneer have done. Keep up the good work keeping this site going.

Yak: PR is not FA's biggest problem. A hugely-flawed code base, a less-than-transparent administration, and an overall atmosphere of "sorry, we'll do it later" are FA's biggest problems. If you can't understand that, then maybe you should just stay the hell out of the discussion until you can.

Dragoneer, I saved you for last. You don't deserve all of the blame for things that are going wrong with FurAffinity - after all, you inherited bad code, bad admins, and a host of other problems from Jheryn when you took over. But now? FurAffinity is your responsibility. You own the site, you run the site, and in the end, the success or failure of the site falls upon you to handle. Silencing criticism, threatening admins, and trying to keep every last little problem hidden away under a veil of secrecy is not helping you turn the site into a success. Keeping around a group of administrators who have not regularly worked to help resolve issues on the site in months - or, in some cases, years - is not helping those administrators who are working to keep the site going as smoothly as possible.

You need to quit worrying about hurting feelings and looking bad, because you're never going to have a 100% approval rating no matter how hard you try; when it comes to running FurAffinity you need to act in the best interests of your site. If firing a lazy admin is in the best interests of FurAffinity, fire them even if they're a friend. If a coder refuses to work on the code of the site and make the site run better, fire them even if they're your family. If something fucks up with the site, let the userbase know as clearly and openly as possible even if it's embarassing to you and the admins/coders. If someone criticizes you for something you've done (regardless of whether or not you deserve it), don't try to bully them into silence when you know such a move will just cause more drama.

Everyone makes mistakes, Dragoneer. I've made a shitton of them in my nearly 30 years of life - for God's sake, I'm posting here, aren't I? - but I've done my best to own up to them and admit when I've fucked up. It's time for you to start doing the same. You need to admit publicly and openly to the entire FA userbase that you fucked up in this situation, you need to publicly and openly address the moderation staff and actually say "I'm sorry" for the threat, and you need to start trying to kill off the site's dead weight in regards to administrators and coders.

There are plenty of people who use this site that would be willing to help you make this site a better place - for free, in many instances. If you would just accept their help instead of acting like they're trying to stab you in the back and usurp your throne simply because they don't kiss your ass and agree with every little thing you do, this site could probably be many times better in just a few months.

You're the owner and head administrator, Dragoneer. You have responsibilities not just to the site, but to its userbase. Start living up to them.
 

Arshes Nei

Masticates in Public
Is there a reason the admin code of conduct is not public? Dragoneer originally gave the impression that it would be, and honestly I'd be a lot more comfortable as a user if I had a way of seeing what expectations the staff was supposed to live up to. Or is this a separate policy from the code of conduct 'Neer promised would be written?

There is a general code of common sense. Basically don't be rude to users, as they are our "guests" and more importantly contributors to our site. Some of it addresses how to use our software and how it comes to actions, and that doesn't need to be public.

I don't think there needs to be a verbatim word or posting of that because one of the problems with the community is that far too often if something is written we get arguments like ...

taking one sentence or phrase out of context and endlessly add tons of textwang and argue about it for posts and posts. :p

I'm also not sure if the policy was supposed to be public because the wording was funny iirc on that conversation on LJ. It's just that I think the policy is more importantly known amongst staff first rather than open for public scrutiny and niggling for whatever drama or agenda of the day. However, it should be spoken amongst staff if they see the other staff members engage in improper behavior and hold them accountable at least that keeps it cleaner and makes it more internal.

But if we got idle admins weighing in .... and have it's pretty irritating.

For me on other matters, I'm going to continue supporting and helping these forum staff members grow to their potential.

In case people were wondering. We basically have auditions, we had it done every quarter when there was need. Reasons they don't happen every three months is if we have too many forum staff and not enough pulling of those members into the main site. In those 3 months I usually accept around 3 users (sometimes more) to become forum mods. After about 3 months I evaluate whether or not those can become Smods and in turn if Smods should be promoted for the site. I think this is key because people were trying to make it sound like I just automatically have these things in place. Not always will apps be open at those times, and not always people get promoted every three months. This is because sometimes, you need to work with someone to become better or realize that some of these people have reached their highest point. Not everyone is cut out to be a site administrator.

This system tends to work better than plucking admins just straight out of being a board mod because you just wanted them to be on the main site.

While mistakes may happen, the biggest issue is communication among mods. The forum mods have developed better communication amongst their staff members than ones that were cherry picked or plucked.
 

Verin Asper

The Smart Idiot
So legitimate question, when are the outstanding tickets going to be answered?

I have several dating back to as far as December, one in November even. :/

Should I just refile them all so they finally get answered?
Double check your tickets, as if it a submission issue, it may have been dealt with by someone else submitting it too, if it a site issue that no longer a problem its probably best to close it.
 

Heimdal

has a sexy learning disability
There is a general code of common sense. Basically don't be rude to users, as they are our "guests" and more importantly contributors to our site. Some of it addresses how to use our software and how it comes to actions, and that doesn't need to be public.

I don't think there needs to be a verbatim word or posting of that because one of the problems with the community is that far too often if something is written we get arguments like ...

taking one sentence or phrase out of context and endlessly add tons of textwang and argue about it for posts and posts. :p

I'm also not sure if the policy was supposed to be public because the wording was funny iirc on that conversation on LJ. It's just that I think the policy is more importantly known amongst staff first rather than open for public scrutiny and niggling for whatever drama or agenda of the day. However, it should be spoken amongst staff if they see the other staff members engage in improper behavior and hold them accountable at least that keeps it cleaner and makes it more internal.

I feel that 'something' public would be more than valuable. Video game patch notes style, maybe? Everything with even the slightest bit relevance to users explained, and all the rest given the vague-but-clear-enough-because-it's-less-relevant "Clarified issues regarding -software- use."

The thing is, if something exists someone will bitch about it. It's not an excuse to not do anything, because it is always the case everywhere. And besides that, furries do secrecy like crap... it has always lead to hindrances and dramastorms. It ought to be dropped altogether, considering it has no history of success.

I would also like to note that FA is a community hub, with volunteer staff. It is run on donations, and is just an empty husk of bad code without user submissions. Why are the user base not let in on staff decisions when they are contributing just as well? Of course (some)admins do a lot more work, but that's beside the point. If FA was a theatre, the users would not be the audience, they would be the actors.
 

quoting_mungo

Well-Known Member
I feel that 'something' public would be more than valuable. Video game patch notes style, maybe? Everything with even the slightest bit relevance to users explained, and all the rest given the vague-but-clear-enough-because-it's-less-relevant "Clarified issues regarding -software- use."

This is mostly what I was getting at, yes. For instance, something I would expect to be present in a code of conduct is "this is how we handle bans" ("up to the discretion of each admin" or "discuss amongst ourselves until at least three people agree" or "ask an ouija board" or whatever), and that is something I do feel users have a right to know at least the basic mechanics of. Same if there's a policy on who handles, say, re-opened tickets, or what to do if submission X is reported for Y violation when in actuality it blatantly violates rule Z but not Y. (Does the user file a new ticket? Reopen the closed ticket? Or did the admin commit an error for closing it citing non-violation of Y in the first place?)

Of course it's more important that the staff have a good grasp of it first, but that doesn't mean the userbase shouldn't get to see the rules that directly influence their interactions with the administration. Also keep in mind that much of the tendency for complaints have been "you say you're doing things but I see none of it".

Now, this obviously doesn't have to be in the form of a public posting of the policy, if that for whatever reason is inappropriate. But giving users a document saying essentially "this is how you can expect admins to treat you" would not be a bad thing. (I know, for instance, I've seen bad blood result from users expecting the admins to notify them before submissions were deleted, and I've also seen people insulted at admins asking them to take their own submissions down. If it's publically stated that admins will act in X manner in cases of Y types of violation, people won't have mismatched expectations which in the long run should result in less, not more, drama.)
 

Arshes Nei

Masticates in Public
If everything online was a democracy including this site nothing gets done. So while I agree it's not necessarily bad to see policies posted in places, people have to understand at a certain point it's not for them to try to nitpick lulz it but at least have a mature enough mind to discuss it and know when something is just going to be an "agree to disagree" I know the nature of the net kinda prevents that. It's like watching youtube for comments, it gets crazy.

Anyways, I'm not in charge overall and I don't even think I'm qualified to find the solution to help users and staff communicate without making it a damn lulz fest everytime ...cuz furries :/
 

Arshes Nei

Masticates in Public
It's also worth wondering how many times they can slip and go 'Sorry' without any real reprocutions.

Well there has been a repercussion from all this actually.
 

Eevee

Banned
Banned
The extreme aversion to all things drama is a part of this. It's becoming clear, avoiding drama, while a noble end, is not a good way to run a site.
The very word "drama" is a poison to this entire subculture. Nothing can ever move forward, because attempting to do so will result in "drama". Nobody can discuss anything seriously, because attempting to do so will result in "drama". Nobody can take responsibility or hold anyone else accountable, because that's "drama".

It's a scapegoat, a bogeyman, a red menace, the monster under your bed that will eat you if you don't do your homework. Except ours eats you if you do do your homework, and so the community remains paralyzed and stagnant, terrified of the possibility of natural human discourse that we've come to know and fear as "drama".

Knock it the fuck off.
 

Heimdal

has a sexy learning disability
The very word "drama" is a poison to this entire subculture. Nothing can ever move forward, because attempting to do so will result in "drama". Nobody can discuss anything seriously, because attempting to do so will result in "drama". Nobody can take responsibility or hold anyone else accountable, because that's "drama."

I totally agree. And to take it further, furries have lost all concept of what drama actually is. Objective evaluations of things are in no way drama, even when the critic throws in something subjective like "and this is retarded" it's closer to drama, but you gotta look at the primary points. Drama is literally when people start throwing around theatrics. The irony of this whole fear of drama is that it is drama!
 

Bobskunk

Banned
Banned
The very word "drama" is a poison to this entire subculture. Nothing can ever move forward, because attempting to do so will result in "drama". Nobody can discuss anything seriously, because attempting to do so will result in "drama". Nobody can take responsibility or hold anyone else accountable, because that's "drama".

It's a scapegoat, a bogeyman, a red menace, the monster under your bed that will eat you if you don't do your homework. Except ours eats you if you do do your homework, and so the community remains paralyzed and stagnant, terrified of the possibility of natural human discourse that we've come to know and fear as "drama".

Knock it the fuck off.

Everything Eevee has just said is correct and this has been my position ever since I noticed the trend of people crying about "drama" and leaving problems to fester, forever unconfronted, when a few minutes of conflict resolution would work wonders. Of course, this attitude always leads up to an explosion from at least one of the parties involved, and then the unhealthy view is reinforced by considering this to be the norm. It's fucking retarded.

When your efforts to "avoid drama" end up consuming most of your time and effort and result in more or less complete inaction, you really have to reevaluate your priorities and direction. If this keeps up, you not only keep problems unsolved, but the resulting catastrophes are even greater and more expensive. Either do it right the first time or fix it as soon as you can. There might be an argument of money/skill constraints for fixing the technical problems of the main site, but "drama" is in no way a valid reason not to address inherent problems in the culture/structure of FA's staff or other various social/human issues.

Don't wimp out on the important things or simply create distractions. Nothing good lies down that path, and the longer you wait to turn away, the harder it gets to break away. It's never too late.
 
Last edited:
Top