Trouble Ticket Policy for Site Admins?

[WarMocK]

I'm sorry... but how does writing proper tickets help the fact that we have lazy admins to begin with...? You can post all you want about people not writing tickets right and asking them to follow a certain policy when doing so, but fact is people are still going to do it.
Now, if there were.. say, admins that did their job, and didn't wave the "@" around like badge and a life accomplishment, those tickets could be closed sooner and not a problem.

:/

Simple answer: Because it ALSO prevents the admins from becoming demotivated, and eventually stopping to answer TTs at all.
If you got a lot of crappy tickets all day which stop you from answering the proper ones you will lose a lot of motivation over time.
There's more than just one way of "gettin rid of lazy admins" you know. ;3

 

[Pi]

I'm not trying to silence critical voices, but I didn't think it would matter a lot to have that second line gone, since you said that a billion times already. We all know what your view is on this case.

Guess what? I'm going to keep saying it until I've seen the slightest fucking bit of change. Your shit has been broken for six years. Get a security audit already, and preferably not one from a 13-year-old kid from the Dominican Republic, or an inflation fetishist.

 

[Diocletian]

it ALSO prevents the admins from becoming demotivated, and eventually stopping to answer TTs at all.
If you got a lot of crappy tickets all day which stop you from answering the proper ones you will lose a lot of motivation over time.
There's more than just one way of "gettin rid of lazy admins" you know. ;3

You do realize that Glaide and Wicht were being lazy before the trouble ticket system even existed, right?

 

[WarMocK]

You do realize that Glaide and Wicht were being lazy before the trouble ticket system even existed, right?

Yes, and I do realize that this probably will repeat itself again eventually. I'm trying to plan ahead at this point.

 

[Arshes Nei]

Glaice, thanks for understanding, just chill out ok?

Pi and Cerebus, Pi, yeah it is a partial problem but even active admins are not following what I posted to them already about account security. I think it's rather hypocritical of us as a site to have it in our knowledge base that users need to be secure about their passwords and not have staff doing the same.

Granted the internet made it so easy to create so many accounts we forget about and don't upkeep, not that it's really the best excuse if at all, but just part of it.

Cerebus, it kinda defeats the purpose of deleting a post then quoting it later. Either it's not to be seen or is. I can understand it being volatile and being warned or sending an infraction, but this way of deleting it didn't seem to work?

Now to Warmock. This is a very long thread, and many people have posted suggestions on how to fix the system. The system is a different issue, while appreciated - you didn't really understand the purpose of this thread. This thread is about inactive admins. Proposing a system for TTs, that's great and all but rather best in another thread.

The reason this went public is 2 reasons.

1. It was already publicly address on livejournal during Dragoneer's Q&A after the hack.
2. I wrote a letter Jan 10th asking this change go through and it did not, it would be public since it was already talked about in public.

 

[WarMocK]

arshesNei, I'm aware of that, and I agree with you that people who drag their feet instead of helping us shouldn't have the "@" in front of their nicknames. And yes, Dragoneer should say "sorry people, but enough is enough!" and ask them to leave on their own (and in honor) or face being kicked out.
The thing is: IF these admins were gone, do you think this won't happen again? A mandatory minimum of solved tickets won't help in the long run, tickets keep on coming in and start piling up until you have to raise the quota to a point where every admin will say "No sorry, hat's too much. I quit!". Then FA will be without admins and a ton of tickets to resolve, and users will start complaining again. Not really something to look foward to if you know you can already prevent it WHILE getting rid of some old junk.

 

[Arshes Nei]

arshesNei, I'm aware of that, and I agree with you that people who drag their feet instead of helping us shouldn't have the "@" in front of their nicknames. And yes, Dragoneer should say "sorry people, but enough is enough!" and ask them to leave on their own (and in honor) or face being kicked out.
The thing is: IF these admins were gone, do you think this won't happen again? A mandatory minimum of solved tickets won't help in the long run, tickets keep on coming in and start piling up until you have to raise the quota to a point where every admin will say "No sorry, hat's too much. I quit!". Then FA will be without admins and a ton of tickets to resolve, and users will start complaining again. Not really something to look foward to if you know you can already prevent it WHILE getting rid of some old junk.

Considering the quota is not really being enforced in the first place, then we really can't move forward.

The quota is very little and on top of that, we add in more staff to keep the cycle going. I already addressed this. Morale is the biggest motivator. When you have people sitting around acting like Statler and Waldorf from the muppet show of course no one wants to do the work at all. That's why you need to get rid of the people who downgrade morale first, because then it causes motivation to fix the other stuff. It's really that simple. As long as you have people laying around not doing anything, it gives an excuse for the next person to do the same.

 

[WarMocK]

Can't disagree with that ArshesNei, but I wanted to point out that there are other factors that both also demotivate admins and will be the cause for the next load of "lazy admins".
Since I did say about this topic what I wanted to, I'm going to quit this discussion and leave it up to you. Got quite a few tickets solved today, but there are a lot more to dig through.

</ParticipationInDiscussion>

 

[Arshes Nei]

Whether you intended to or not it felt like an insult at my intelligence - as in I didn't think of other factors. I'm pushing through in one organized way (and not forgetting the other factors, but leaving them out until point A is done). That way we can move on to points B, C etc.

 

[ShadowWalker]

He also insulted the intelligence of every user on FA by making a general statement about what trouble tickets look like when the admins get them. If he's so concerned about the content of them, then there should be some sort of guide as to what all a ticket should contain and that should be sent out automatically to each new user when they join. That would cut down on this "trouble" Of his.

Course, it seems that some admins like to do nothing more than blame the user for the troubles of the system *Shrugs* Oh well, can't kick them all in the butt and tell them to actually use their brains.

 

[Arshes Nei]

We have the tools actually but either due to negligence or poor upkeep in linking them make it an issue. It's a side issue that for some reason can be easily resolved, but isn't.

IE the knowledge-base, can integrate the Guide to writing TTs. http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/1833685/ http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/1826865/
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/1863989/

 

[MandertehPander]

Warmock, if you're that concerned abut morale being dropped because of shotty tickets, then FA NEEDS to code a template that has to be filled out depending on why the ticket is being filed, and unless EVERY field is filled out, the ticket does not go through and the user in question is prompted to fill out ALL fields until the ticket is finally submitted. This way tickets are a bit more organized.

Example, someone files a harassment ticket:
Username(s) of the offender(s):
Links to comments, journals, submissions, and other releveant areas where the harassment is taking place:
Does this directly affect you?: (Yes or no, there is no input for custom answers)
Why do you feel this is harassing in nature? (This is where people would input the problem)
Have you tried hiding the comment and ignoring the problem? (Yes or No)
Has this user circumvented (gone around) a block you have against them on the FURAFFINITY.NET mainsite ONLY? (Yes or no)

Now based on some of the answers, you can have the ticket solved almost instantly by a bot because they put in the wrong answer (In a sense), saying their ticket was denied for the following reason, yadda yadda yadda.

Just my two cents. But this would also require FA had any coding ability.

 

[Xenke]

Warmock, if you're that concerned abut morale being dropped because of shotty tickets, then FA NEEDS to code a template that has to be filled out depending on why the ticket is being filed, and unless EVERY field is filled out, the ticket does not go through and the user in question is prompted to fill out ALL fields until the ticket is finally submitted. This way tickets are a bit more organized.

Example, someone files a harassment ticket:
Username(s) of the offender(s):
Links to comments, journals, submissions, and other releveant areas where the harassment is taking place:
Does this directly affect you?: (Yes or no, there is no input for custom answers)
Why do you feel this is harassing in nature? (This is where people would input the problem)
Have you tried hiding the comment and ignoring the problem? (Yes or No)
Has this user circumvented (gone around) a block you have against them on the FURAFFINITY.NET mainsite ONLY? (Yes or no)

Now based on some of the answers, you can have the ticket solved by a bot because they put in the wrong answer (In a sense).

Just my two cents. But this would also require FA had any coding ability.

I think people just need to be educated on how to actually fill out a ticket.

I would surmise that the fact that someone can actually fill out a ticket and that the person on the other side doesn't get the impression that it was written by a robot is something that reduces the monotony of resolving TTs.

 

[MandertehPander]

In the end, not everyone will be pleased, it's hard to come to a consensus on anything like this.

 

[Armaetus]

You do realize that Glaide and Wicht were being lazy before the trouble ticket system even existed, right?

My question could be is WHY they are still here when they contribute ZERO to help out in any manner..let's not forget how he responded last night with that chat exerpt from DY I posted on the previous page.

Glaice, thanks for understanding, just chill out ok?

You are welcome, I was a bit frustrated when I was typing up that post so stuff can slip due to emotions.

 

[Aden]

I think people just need to be educated on how to actually fill out a ticket.

So why don't we have instructions on how to fill out a trouble ticket in the fucking trouble ticket page? :T

 

[Xenke]

So why don't we have instructions on how to fill out a trouble ticket in the fucking trouble ticket page? :T

Same reason the AUP page linked to the submission form is outdated.

 

[Pi]

Same reason the AUP page linked to the submission form is outdated.

Extreme laziness bordering on incompetence?

 

[dinosaurdammit]

I think a report button to flag inappropriate art would solve a lot of problems. It would cut down on the amount of TT's in a given day. I know when I see something against AUP I file a TT and I honestly feel bad because I know it bogs the system down, but a man in his bondage fetish fursuit gear sitting in a cage- I feel less bad for reporting that than bogging down the system. A report button would flag the picture for an admin to look at quickly and no TT has to be filed. Maybe that might help moral.

 

[Ben]

I think a report button to flag inappropriate art would solve a lot of problems. It would cut down on the amount of TT's in a given day. I know when I see something against AUP I file a TT and I honestly feel bad because I know it bogs the system down, but a man in his bondage fetish fursuit gear sitting in a cage- I feel less bad for reporting that than bogging down the system. A report button would flag the picture for an admin to look at quickly and no TT has to be filed. Maybe that might help moral.

Considering profile IDs, a buggy comment system, and the search engine being brought back after several eons are the only features that have been added to FA in the last two years, I wouldn't set your hopes too high on this one. However yes, a report button would be probably the best idea.

 

[MandertehPander]

Not like every OTHER furry website doesn't have a report option.


x:

 

[Arshes Nei]

I think a report button to flag inappropriate art would solve a lot of problems. It would cut down on the amount of TT's in a given day. I know when I see something against AUP I file a TT and I honestly feel bad because I know it bogs the system down, but a man in his bondage fetish fursuit gear sitting in a cage- I feel less bad for reporting that than bogging down the system. A report button would flag the picture for an admin to look at quickly and no TT has to be filed. Maybe that might help moral.

Umm, it would still act like a TT so it would go into queue. So there would be no difference. There isn't anything to be done in that case but an overhaul of the system, however, you want a system where everyone works at doing it. As long as you have the guy around feeling entitled to do nothing (idle admins effect on other staff) and not having other programmers on the site for years...well it developed this system. The system of not getting things done in an efficient manner.

 

[Summercat]

As of this point and time, on this issue:

I don't give a rat's ass (Sorry Ratte).

Bitching like this about this problem isn't going to do anything, and we have other issues to worry about as well, such as our latest security issues, our backlog of trouble tickets (That we're whittle down to about half of what it was when I was hired), the lack of tools and clear communication channels, the AUP in need of clarification and expansion -

Hellfire, tomorrow night I'm opening up a discussion to see what the community thinks the definition of a term is, because I want into an issue and found out that for FA's purposes, I had to default onto the dictionary definition which in this case was fairly obviously not right!

And I'm the one who has been butting heads with Wicht over an embed account and struggling with him on getting actual advice on how to work the TT system.

Are idle admins helping? No. They're not. I, however, do not feel that they neccessarily impede the functioning of this website. Further, out of all the idle admins, the only one I have beef with is Wicht, and that's due to how he decided to handle some situations.

So, at this point and time? I don't care about idle admins. I care about getting the ticket situation squared away, the AUP brought up to date, getting yak and/or net-cat to fix some issues on the site (fixing the AUP link on the 2nd page of the submission process, removing the commission info tab while it's still out of action), and getting three people I know on board to help out with coding crap and learning PHP myself so I can help reform the ticket system.

Oh, and Eevee, if you are reading this, I'm still waiting for that list I asked for, of the security vulnerabilities you found and know of on FA.

 

[Diocletian]

Summercat, you're saying that the idle admins are not an impediment and yet you also say that you are butting heads with the lazy and disruptive Wicht, and such infighting is always a morale-sapping waste of time and energy for the staff. Clearly the lazy admins are an impediment to the functioning of the staff and therefore to the functioning of the site.

The central overriding problem here is that Sean (Dragoneer) cannot fully deal with the lazy admins himself and will not currently delegate to someone else to let them fix the situation or even communicate with some other members of staff: he has shot at the messengers.

That fundamental issue: being unable or unwilling to deal with certain issues himself, but refusing to delegate and sometimes shooting the messenger(s), affects all the other issues you speak of as well. It is not the sole source of the FAs problems, but it is the biggest problem and it acts as a roadblock to so many others.

It's running to stand still while Sean is not co-operating with the active staff for the good of the community. Things pile up and fester, new staff come on and may be able to patch some things up for a time and then they burn out and things start coming apart at the seams again. This cycle keeps on repeating itself. It is not going to stop while Sean is not delegating.

I was an administrator on FA for a year, I was an active one was well. I've seen how FA is run, so don't think I'm being unfair or bashing Sean: the fact that he can't or won't handle certain issues himself and isn't delegating effectively is the biggest problem FA faces today and until it is solved many of the other problems have little hope of a permanent long-term resolution.

This is not bitching, this is a serious discussion of real problems and what can be the most productive way forward.

I believe that the most productive way forward at this point is for the active FA staff who have the best interest of the community in mind is to be pragmatic: to unite and to speak with one voice to ask Sean to delegate to a competent lead administrator. Likewise, the community that uses this site can also make their voices heard.

 

[Arshes Nei]

I like how because I focused on this issue became a strawman for other issues are not important. There was never a denial but rather a focused approach one this one so that little by little it all is approached.

The whole problem was that things would start, ppl become apathetic and then use logical fallicies where a whole lot of talking and nothing gets done. Or it is done half assed. So you'll excuse me for at least taking a step on the matter instead of the usual spaghetti on the wall.