Ukraine

[TyraWadman]

Just throwing this here because it seems to be a main subject right now in the Vent thread.
Not shaming anyone for making those comments either. Just seems like it would be more appropriate to have it all in one thread.

Please keep things civil. It's one thing express concern, it's another thing to be treating this like some sort of election campaign. Use this thread for things like updating us on your safety.

If you have any useful resources like funding campaigns/donation sites, feel free to share and I will add it to the OP. Evacuation routes/updates would probably be handy, too.

Thank you.
Feel free to lock/close this thread whenever necessary.

Donation Links (So Far):

Ukraine Crisis Relief Fund

Russia has invaded Ukraine in the biggest state-against-state attack since World War II. Millions of civilians are caught in the middle of an escalating war and humanitarian crisis, and casualties are rising. Your donation to this fund will support Ukrainians in need, with a focus on the most...

www.globalgiving.org

How to Help Refugees — Aid, Relief and Donations | USA for UNHCR

USA for UNHCR helps to save, protect and rebuild the lives of millions of refugees. Learn how you can help.

www.unrefugees.org

NBU Opens Special Account to Raise Funds for Ukraine’s Armed Forces (updated)

The National Bank of Ukraine has decided to open a special fundraising account to support the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The central bank’s decision comes after the Ukrainian gove...

bank.gov.ua

 

[TyraWadman]

Ukraine Crisis Relief Fund

Russia has invaded Ukraine in the biggest state-against-state attack since World War II. Millions of civilians are caught in the middle of an escalating war and humanitarian crisis, and casualties are rising. Your donation to this fund will support Ukrainians in need, with a focus on the most...

www.globalgiving.org

How to Help Refugees — Aid, Relief and Donations | USA for UNHCR

USA for UNHCR helps to save, protect and rebuild the lives of millions of refugees. Learn how you can help.

www.unrefugees.org

NBU Opens Special Account to Raise Funds for Ukraine’s Armed Forces (updated)

The National Bank of Ukraine has decided to open a special fundraising account to support the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The central bank’s decision comes after the Ukrainian gove...

bank.gov.ua

For the sake of innocent Russian lives as well, I hope this all comes to an end very soon.

 

[TyraWadman]

Just heard Payoneer is still accepting payments to Russia, for those hoping to commission some artists.
Can anyone confirm?

 

[Minerva_Minx]

Yes, for the moment. It will come down to letter of the law on compliance though.

 

[TyraWadman]

Looks like artists have turned to the Russian equivalent of Patreon called Boosty.

I don't know if paypal is still functional with that service, but even if it helps some Russian artists help send cash to their friends/families during a time of crisis, at least it's something.

 

[Deleted member 160111]

Payoneer

I'm not sure anyone needs it. But Payoneer will stop working for artists from Russia very soon. Belarusians also have problems.

We are sorry to inform you that as of December 16th 2022, Payoneer will no longer be able to provide you with its services and your account will be closed. Any funds sent to your account after December 8th will be returned to the sender due to service limitations.

Boosty is working. Artists are now trying to test the bot in telegram to accept payment. The information is very fresh. About 2 days ago, the first messages about the bot for payment appeared.

 

[Guifrog]

I'm not sure anyone needs it. But Payoneer will stop working for artists from Russia very soon. Belarusians also have problems.

Indeed, just today I learned that Russian translators from my company won't be able to receive through Payoneer soon, and that was their last payout option left. I'm not sure how this is going to be handled

On the subject of support:

Ukraine response toolkit

Practical language resources help responders, interpreters and translators communicate effectively with people affected by the war in Ukraine

clearglobal.org

They are still seeking expert linguists in Ukrainian, Russian, Polish, Hungarian, Czech, Romanian, Moldovan, and German. So whoever wants to aid both refugees and others impacted by the events in Ukraine and neighboring countries, it's still possible to volunteer and offer your language services to them and/or donate to support their work

 

[Parabellum3]

Big F to all the Russian artists.

 

[Vanessa Howl]

I feel bad for all the Russians that aren't actually involved with the war. Like, they are just normal people who have no say in what their government does but the rest of the world is trying to punish the government by pushing THEM.

 

[Fallowfox]

However we feel towards Russian content producers we cannot buy their content.

Any tax they pay means funds for the Kremlin's war.

When fascists takeover, the first country they invade is always their own. Those Russians who do not support war in Ukraine have my sympathies, but I can't offer them anything more.

 

[Deleted member 160111]

Any tax they pay means funds for the Kremlin's war.

Taxes in Russia, this literally means sponsoring the children of deputies.
Taxes from artists will not speed up or slow down the loss in the war in any way. The Kremlin will always find more money. These events are not about common sense.

But. I understand those who do not work with artists from Russia so that their money does not get to the military.

Interesting fact. We have a joke "Moscow is not Russia". Literally, this means that Moscow and the rest of Russia live as two different states
The products that are made in my city are more expensive here than in Moscow, and this is taking into account the huge transportation costs. Moscow lives better, this is done on purpose so that as few people as possible are outraged. And no one cares about those who live beyond the MKAD, they still can't get to the Kremlin to express their dissatisfaction.

In this situation, I am most confused by the attitude of Ukrainians to Russians. I don't blame them for wishing for death or comparing them to slaves. I just understand that for those who doubted which side to take in this conflict (propaganda has been working for years, don't forget) "Good Russian is a dead Russian", this is the very Nazism that Putin was talking about! I know that this is a reaction to thousands of murdered citizens, to torture. But anyone who shrugs off this conflict - right now, doubting the Kremlin's actions, will see these things and decide that yes, there are Nazis in Ukraine.
This scares me, because in this case there will be no fewer people willing to become cannon fodder. They will sincerely believe in Putin's words at the beginning of the war. It's horrible. Hatred breeds hatred - I repeat this all the time, but there is so much cruelty and injustice around. I am surrounded by vile people here in Siberia, yes, there are good and honest people among them, and their sincerity makes tears flow from my eyes. I am completely disappointed in people. They behave worse than animals, hate you for some nonsense and see you as garbage, but they themselves do not see how they are calling to kill people. I just don't want to live.

Sorry about this "footcloth". I didn't mean to, it just happened.

 

[Deleted member 160111]

This blogger has videos about what is happening at the front and not only (English subtitles are made manually), you can watch if you want.
Why aren't Russians protesting?

 

[Rimna]

However we feel towards Russian content producers we cannot buy their content.

Any tax they pay means funds for the Kremlin's war.

When fascists takeover, the first country they invade is always their own. Those Russians who do not support war in Ukraine have my sympathies, but I can't offer them anything more.

I'm sure a couple of thousand rubles spent by people who are looking to make ends meet will have a huge impact on the war effort.

 

[Deleted member 160111]

Any tax they pay means funds for the Kremlin's war.

I'm sure a couple of thousand rubles spent by people who are looking to make ends meet will have a huge impact on the war effort.

I listened to an Economist a couple of weeks ago. If I understood him correctly, the central bank of the Russian Federation has enough money right now to drag out the war until 2024-25.
No one except Russia knows about the monstrous level of corruption. Artists, engineers, scientists and programmers, you can all starve to death, but the war will continue without you and your taxes. Just like that.

 

[Fallowfox]

I listened to an Economist a couple of weeks ago. If I understood him correctly, the central bank of the Russian Federation has enough money right now to drag out the war until 2024-25.
No one except Russia knows about the monstrous level of corruption. Artists, engineers, scientists and programmers, you can all starve to death, but the war will continue without you and your taxes. Just like that.

Economic and academic boycotts were also applied to apartheid South Africa..
Russia's economy is forecast to contract 5% next year.

I'm sure a couple of thousand rubles spent by people who are looking to make ends meet will have a huge impact on the war effort.

Honestly every cent we can avoid giving Russia the better. It's just how it is. My greater sympathies have to reside with the Ukrainian people,
and my hopes have to lie in ordinary Russians that- if they can't make ends meet- they will reconsider living under the one man responsible for that.

 

[Deleted member 160111]

The part of the population that understands WHO is the cause of their troubles is now eating shit. They were kicked out of universities, out of work - even if they settled in other countries before these events. If earlier they could express their discontent publicly because they could hide in another country, now they either have to shut their mouths or go to jail. They also cannot count on financial support, having got into a difficult situation. Well, prison is not the worst option.
You forget that it is CONVENIENT to live in an authoritarian system when you obey it. It's NOT PLEASANT, but CONVENIENT. Be true to the system - and you and your children will have a piece of bread. Go against the system - and they will take away the just bread.

A person always strives for a simple path. When the whole world turns away from you, it's much easier to join the general madness. Watching gladiatorial fights is fun only from the outside. And it's funny how the lions will die first.
Don't give Russia a cent, let's see what happens next.

 

[Fallowfox]

The part of the population that understands WHO is the cause of their troubles is now eating shit. They were kicked out of universities, out of work - even if they settled in other countries before these events. If earlier they could express their discontent publicly because they could hide in another country, now they either have to shut their mouths or go to jail. They also cannot count on financial support, having got into a difficult situation. Well, prison is not the worst option.
You forget that it is CONVENIENT to live in an authoritarian system when you obey it. It's NOT PLEASANT, but CONVENIENT. Be true to the system - and you and your children will have a piece of bread. Go against the system - and they will take away the just bread.

A person always strives for a simple path. When the whole world turns away from you, it's much easier to join the general madness. Watching gladiatorial fights is fun only from the outside. And it's funny how the lions will die first.
Don't give Russia a cent, let's see what happens next.

Eyleifr, I did describe Russia as a fascist country and expressed my belief that the first country occupied by fascists is always their own.
I understand the parallels of living in modern Russia, and living in a police state like Nazi Germany- and the adage that all it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

We can't give economic support to your country's artists under these circumstances. I feel sorry for those Russians not responsible for this, but my first thoughts have to be with the the Ukrainians being bombed, with the families of lost children, and I wouldn't be able to look them in the eye and tell them I was buying luxury goods from the country that did that to them.

 

[The_Happiest_Husky]

Why aren't Russians protesting?

They don't want to be jailed/tortured/killed
A fairly reasonable reason to not protest something you have no control over, I'd think

 

[Punji]

It costs money to live, no matter where the money comes from.

Whether income comes from artwork commissions or flipping burgers and digging ditches, money is changing hands and being spent. Tax is being collected regardless, no reason to stifle Russian artists or refuse their services. Only hurting the little guys, not Big Bad Mother Bear™.

 

[Miles Marsalis]

It costs money to live, no matter where the money comes from.

Whether income comes from artwork commissions or flipping burgers and digging ditches, money is changing hands and being spent. Tax is being collected regardless, no reason to stifle Russian artists or refuse their services. Only hurting the little guys, not Big Bad Mother Bear™.

Those taxes are being collected across the Russian economy and a good portion of is use to support the continued illegal invasion of Ukraine and the war crimes against. A minimal amount of sales tax for individual artists can add up when combined with the total tax revenue raised off Russians who offer international services.

It's also worth noting that Russian banks which have been sanctioned and support the war can profit from fees for international transactions, which also be diverted to financing the war effort or alleviating pressure on sanctioned individuals and institutions.

Furthermore, part of the reason we have these crippling sanctions against Russia is spur the Russian population to take the necessary action to put pressure on their government to end the continued genocide against the Ukrainians. Russians who are not able to do international business and are suffering economically due to the sanctions will demand that their government withdraw from Ukraine if the economic damage continues for long enough, whether though protests or other action.

I'll admit does somewhat that Russians have to suffer due the sanctions, but that is nothing compared to what the Ukrainians are going through right now, especially with the humanitarian crisis the incoming winter is going to create due to destruction of their energy infrastructure by the Russians. Or the nuclear threats Putin has leveled against NATO countries.

People may want art from Russian artists, but it's far more important to support the Ukrainian people in this conflict and for them to win it.

There is also nothing wrong with supporting Ukrainian artists or charities, many of whom could use the money.

 

[Punji]

Those taxes are being collected across the Russian economy and a good portion of is use to support the continued illegal invasion of Ukraine and the war crimes against. A minimal amount of sales tax for individual artists can add up when combined with the total tax revenue raised off Russians who offer international services.

It's also worth noting that Russian banks which have been sanctioned and support the war can profit from fees for international transactions, which also be diverted to financing the war effort or alleviating pressure on sanctioned individuals and institutions.

Furthermore, part of the reason we have these crippling sanctions against Russia is spur the Russian population to take the necessary action to put pressure on their government to end the continued genocide against the Ukrainians. Russians who are not able to do international business and are suffering economically due to the sanctions will demand that their government withdraw from Ukraine if the economic damage continues for long enough, whether though protests or other action.

I'll admit does somewhat that Russians have to suffer due the sanctions, but that is nothing compared to what the Ukrainians are going through right now, especially with the humanitarian crisis the incoming winter is going to create due to destruction of their energy infrastructure by the Russians. Or the nuclear threats Putin has leveled against NATO countries.

People may want art from Russian artists, but it's far more important to support the Ukrainian people in this conflict and for them to win it.

There is also nothing wrong with supporting Ukrainian artists or charities, many of whom could use the money.

Always the contrarian, huh buddy?

Grabbing 5% off the top of some $20 commission isn't going to mean the difference between the Riften Orphanage getting nuked or not. All you're advocating for is xenophobic punishments towards an innocent population while trying to act like that makes you a good person. If the rolls were reversed, would you sit there silently, content to have your livelihood stripped away from you because your government started a war you didn't support? For once in your life try to be compassionate to another's suffering without thinking about the political angle you sociopath.

There, you got Senpi's attention. Happy now?

 

[Firuthi Dragovic]

Always the contrarian, huh buddy?

Grabbing 5% off the top of some $20 commission isn't going to mean the difference between the Riften Orphanage getting nuked or not. All you're advocating for is xenophobic punishments towards an innocent population while trying to act like that makes you a good person. If the rolls were reversed, would you sit there silently, content to have your livelihood stripped away from you because your government started a war you didn't support? For once in your life try to be compassionate to another's suffering without thinking about the political angle you sociopath.

There, you got Senpi's attention. Happy now?

Too easy for these tyrannical governments to turn it into 50% or 75% or more tax rather than a mere 5%. You gravely underestimate human bastardry here, Punji.

Compassion is better generated with clandestine charity operations in a situation like this. And I hate to say this, but I'd rather not know about them, in order that they keep going.

 

[Punji]

Too easy for these tyrannical governments to turn it into 50% or 75% or more tax rather than a mere 5%. You gravely underestimate human bastardry here, Punji.

Compassion is better generated with clandestine charity operations in a situation like this. And I hate to say this, but I'd rather not know about them, in order that they keep going.

I'm inclined to doubt this, personally. It's just not realistic or sustainable. But even so, if the government seized 100% of the payment, $120 USD might not even cover the costs to build a single empty magazine, much less a functioning military firearm or any kind of explosive. War cannot be funded purely from taxing furry artists.

Compassion isn't strictly a limited resource. Rather than just presume the existence (and usefulness) of such charity organizations, providing direct income to artists will only help them. It won't take away from other external supports, nor will it be able to actually finance very much of the massive war machine. It's not right to turn one's back to the innocent civilian population of an "enemy" country

 

[Minerva_Minx]

No bomb, no sword, no bullet, no knife, no amount of force can hold a people forever. Authoritarian regimes and Dictatorships require tremendous resources and capital to maintain. Eventually, they all break down.

Unfortunately, kindness, compassion, and hope are as fragile as soap bubbles and can disappear and be forgotten. Eventually, they do come back, but it's long and painful. Most people want instant gratification or things to happen now or easy or without much input so it's even less difficult to knock away and bury.

It sucks, but a little here and there adds up. so yeah, even I am conflicted at times. But the little that makes it through, the little that is convenient for me, that makes my life that little bit easier - that little bit mixes with someone else's little bit and someone else's little bit. Then there's more bullets, bombs, blood, casualties.

As much as it sucks and no ome wants to hear it, I do not support Russian artists with funds right now because while it helps them, it absolutely helps hurt someone else. the best I can do is try to find one or two people who might be warm to talking and hope sometime down the road, that causes the change I hope for everyone.

 

[Miles Marsalis]

Those taxes are being collected across the Russian economy and a good portion of is use to support the continued illegal invasion of Ukraine and the war crimes against. A minimal amount of sales tax for individual artists can add up when combined with the total tax revenue raised off Russians who offer international services.

It's also worth noting that Russian banks which have been sanctioned and support the war can profit from fees for international transactions, which also be diverted to financing the war effort or alleviating pressure on sanctioned individuals and institutions.

Furthermore, part of the reason we have these crippling sanctions against Russia is spur the Russian population to take the necessary action to put pressure on their government to end the continued genocide against the Ukrainians. Russians who are not able to do international business and are suffering economically due to the sanctions will demand that their government withdraw from Ukraine if the economic damage continues for long enough, whether though protests or other action.

I'll admit does somewhat that Russians have to suffer due the sanctions, but that is nothing compared to what the Ukrainians are going through right now, especially with the humanitarian crisis the incoming winter is going to create due to destruction of their energy infrastructure by the Russians. Or the nuclear threats Putin has leveled against NATO countries.

People may want art from Russian artists, but it's far more important to support the Ukrainian people in this conflict and for them to win it.

There is also nothing wrong with supporting Ukrainian artists or charities, many of whom could use the money.

I'm consistent; I expressed sentiments about the importance of showing solidarity with the Ukrainian and not breaking the sanctions, which in many cases are illegal to circumvent anyway.

And concept of revenue from the total taxpayer base and bank customer base in Russia adding up to fund the continued human rights abuses in Ukraine is not hard one to grasp. I'm sure there are millions of seemingly innocuous transactions to Russian parties that may not appear to support the war effort, but all those transactions can contribute taxes and fees (or even be seized wholesale under Russian emergency powers) to continue the war in Ukraine ... which is why sanctions all the transactions in the categories and industries they are for.

Without getting political, though we're talking about an inherently political matter, the sanctions aren't xenophobic.

Since the latest phase of the war began, approximately 6,600 civilians have been killed, which is a low estimate because we've got no hard numbers on what is happening in the occupied territories in terms of human rights abuses. However, we know there have been massive human abuses committed by Russian forces during the war like the deliberate bombing of hospitals, orphanages, and clear civilian targets. There are have been missiles attacks where the Russians have painted on missiles "For the children". There is a very disturbing trend of mass killings of civilians happening in Russian controlled areas, which Bucha first exposed. There have also been tortures site where Russian soldiers tortured civilians, at times to the death. Millions of Ukrainians have been displaced by the Russian invasion and had their homes destroyed.

All that happened because Russia invaded Ukraine without just cause and is continuing to commit human rights abuses in the country.

Now do I feel for Russians suffering economically due the sanctions? Sure.

But they're suffering nowhere nearly as much as the Ukrainians are currently right now.

And I put my livelihood on the line for four years working for political change that my firm didn't necessarily support, so I would definitely never support my country waging wholesale genocide against another country.