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Unpopular opinions 2.0!

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Fallowfox

Are we moomin, or are we dancer?
Well YOU made it sound like a disgusted comment, why do you think you have to do that and then try to make it about rights? again I don't think this is about rights at all, neither should it be about putting words in anyone's mouth, because if you have to do that in order to have a case... I'm fraid you don't have one.

Obtuse? I'm not the one bringing up a silly logic and hoping that nobody shows why it doesn't make much sense.

Simple as I can possibly make it.

Do you agree with me that transgender activists are not interested in shaming you to change your sexual preferences?

Yes? No problem.

No? Then you've made a mistake. They're not interested in dating you- they're interested in securing the liberties other people take for granted.
 

Frank Gulotta

Send us your floppy
Simple as I can possibly make it.

Do you agree with me that transgender activists are not interested in shaming you to change your sexual preferences?

Yes? No problem.

No? Then you've made a mistake. They're not interested in dating you- they're interested in securing the liberties other people take for granted.
Again I don't know what liberty you're even talking about or why you're bringing it up. I'm solely talking of preferences, and I'm not aware of any liberty to have anyone be attracted to you.
 

Fallowfox

Are we moomin, or are we dancer?
Again I don't know what liberty you're even talking about or why you're bringing it up. I'm solely talking of preferences, and I'm not aware of any liberty to have anyone be attracted to you.

Perhaps this is a language barrier problem.

Several people have posted on the forums that they feel like transgender activists want to shame them into changing their sexual preferences.

This is wrong; nobody is interested in forcing Frank to go on dates with them.
If you think anybody does want this, you've misunderstood them.

Less than 50% = minority. Or do you disagree with maths..?

'Minority' is an English term used to refer to a small group who differ from the main population.
'Romani' would be a minority, but 'people who enjoy watching golf' wouldn't be, even if only 45% of people enjoy watching golf.

When Americans use the term, they usually mean a group that doesn't have the same social advantages as the main population.
So they typically wouldn't refer to being Californian as a 'minority', for example.

So this is simply a French/English language barrier.
 
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Saokymo

Art Cookie
Less than 50% = minority. Or do you disagree with maths..?
Wikipedia - Human Sex Ratio: The sex ratio for the entire world population is 101 males to 100 females (2018 est.)

You were saying? Just cos certain areas have more women than men doesn’t make men a minority overall. Plurality is the better word to use here cos the gender ratio is roughly 1:1 across the board with slight statistical variation.
 

Fallowfox

Are we moomin, or are we dancer?
Then it would be on you, because I wasn't the one bringing up all sorts of unrelated stuff :p

Sure- if that makes you feel better.

Do you feel better now, knowing nobody is interested in forcing you to change your sexual preference? Have I alleviated an anxiety you had?
 

Frank Gulotta

Send us your floppy
Wikipedia - Human Sex Ratio: The sex ratio for the entire world population is 101 males to 100 females (2018 est.)

You were saying? Just cos certain areas have more women than men doesn’t make men a minority overall. Plurality is the better word to use here cos the gender ratio is roughly 1:1 across the board with slight statistical variation.
I was saying...
1612111708640.png

Which countries do you live in? chances are you live in one of the many ones where men are in fact a minority :p
 
D

Deleted member 111470

Guest

At least here, as in where I live, it's okay for people to hate on rap and say that it's only about "gangsta shit and drugs and bitches". Often times, it's metalheads that do it, or people who are into rock music.

That's the same thing as if I said that metal is only about screaming as loud as you can, sacrificing people in the name of satan and taking drugs.

In both cases this generalization is kinda dum.
 

Frank Gulotta

Send us your floppy
Sure- if that makes you feel better.

Do you feel better now, knowing nobody is interested in forcing you to change your sexual preference? Have I alleviated an anxiety you had?
Damn, you just assume a lot of things today. Who told you I was anxious? I was always fine, merely reacting to groups of people I've seen in action expressing entitlement to having other people be attracted to them :p
 

Yakamaru

I put the fun in dysfunctional
At least here, as in where I live, it's okay for people to hate on rap and say that it's only about "gangsta shit and drugs and bitches". Often times, it's metalheads that do it, or people who are into rock music.

That's the same thing as if I said that metal is only about screaming as loud as you can, sacrificing people in the name of satan and taking drugs.

In both cases this generalization is kinda dum.
Ah, like that. Ye, it's dumb, though stereotypes like that inside music don't exactly pop out outta nowhere.
 

Saokymo

Art Cookie
And now we’re back to arguing over basic maths and statistics to invalidate trans people again. Fantastic!

Men are a plurality, not a minority - even in countries where demographics skew slightly towards women. The overall global ratio still favors men even with all the various countries that have a slight female majority population.
 
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Fallowfox

Are we moomin, or are we dancer?
Damn, you just assume a lot of things today. Who told you I was anxious? I was always fine, merely reacting to groups of people I've seen in action expressing entitlement to having other people be attracted to them :p

I am sure you are a catch, Frank, but Nobody wants to change your sexuality so that they can date you.

If you think people do, you're mistaken.
 

Fallowfox

Are we moomin, or are we dancer?
Do you know the opinion of everyone on earth on this?

Your unpopular opinion is that you secretly believe that somebody- somewhere on Earth- wants to have an unwanted sexual relationship with you.

Okay...
 

Punji

Vaskebjørn
The idea that trans people expect other people to date them isn't entirely unwarranted. Do all or even most trans people think people should date them regardless of being trans? No, I'm sure most people accept that not everyone will be attracted to them and sometimes very superficial traits can be deal-breakers.

So why does this argument exist in response to the comments given previously? Because unfortunately so people do believe it's wrong to not date someone on a preference or sexuality. Here's a video by Riley Dennis, very commonly criticized as being basically "date trans people or you're a bigot."


Personally I feel sad for her. She gets way too much hate when I personally feel she thinks what she's saying is okay. Furthermore, I understand how she might feel. Not long ago I wanted to try dating with my best friend, but the fact of the matter is he's just not interested in dating males. In his awesomely kind heart he never flat out told me "no" even when I finally came to terms and apologized for getting so excited about the idea of it when he clearly wasn't interested.

It doesn't make it right to expect it. It doesn't mean he thinks less of me just because he's not interested in a romantic relationship. People refusing to date someone on the basis of race, sex, gender, or being trans may not be great but it doesn't mean they're bad people, that the person being rejected is worth any less to themselves or others, or that the person being rejected is being denied any liberties.

To reiterate, the unfortuate idea that some trans people expect others to date them with no consideration to being trans is not entirely without reason. Comments directed at this are not meant to target all trans people or so I would assume, only at the expressed views of a vocal minority. No one likes to have their behaviours dictated, by anyone. This is not an issue with trans people directly, and could be applied to anyone over any thing.

And now we’re back to arguing over basic maths and statistics to invalidate trans people again. Fantastic!
We don't really have to do this dance again and get the second unpopular opinions thread locked too.

This is a strawman plain and simple. No one is invalidating trans people.

This is why these discussions always spiral. This is a dishonest conduct not in any way intended to further the conversation, and is only meant to dig at the perceived opponent.

Can we all here on the FAF at least try to be respectful and decent in spite of our disagreements? Let's at least try to have one good honest discussion about this for once.
 

Lucyfur

United forever in friendship and labour
The idea that trans people expect other people to date them isn't entirely unwarranted. Do all or even most trans people think people should date them regardless of being trans? No, I'm sure most people accept that not everyone will be attracted to them and sometimes very superficial traits can be deal-breakers.

So why does this argument exist in response to the comments given previously? Because unfortunately so people do believe it's wrong to not date someone on a preference or sexuality. Here's a video by Riley Dennis, very commonly criticized as being basically "date trans people or you're a bigot."


Personally I feel sad for her. She gets way too much hate when I personally feel she thinks what she's saying is okay. Furthermore, I understand how she might feel. Not long ago I wanted to try dating with my best friend, but the fact of the matter is he's just not interested in dating males. In his awesomely kind heart he never flat out told me "no" even when I finally came to terms and apologized for getting so excited about the idea of it when he clearly wasn't interested.

It doesn't make it right to expect it. It doesn't mean he thinks less of me just because he's not interested in a romantic relationship. People refusing to date someone on the basis of race, sex, gender, or being trans may not be great but it doesn't mean they're bad people, that the person being rejected is worth any less to themselves or others, or that the person being rejected is being denied any liberties.

To reiterate, the unfortuate idea that some trans people expect others to date them with no consideration to being trans is not entirely without reason. Comments directed at this are not meant to target all trans people or so I would assume, only at the expressed views of a vocal minority. No one likes to have their behaviours dictated, by anyone. This is not an issue with trans people directly, and could be applied to anyone over any thing.


We don't really have to do this dance again and get the second unpopular opinions thread locked too.

This is a strawman plain and simple. No one is invalidating trans people.

This is why these discussions always spiral. This is a dishonest conduct not in any way intended to further the conversation, and is only meant to dig at the perceived opponent.

Can we all here on the FAF at least try to be respectful and decent in spite of our disagreements? Let's at least try to have one good honest discussion about this for once.
Ah..
Looks at the content admins deleted from FAF when they suspended me for showing evidence of transphobia from conversations you and your friends have had.
Ah yes Definitely no one around here wants to invalidate trans people and they definitely don’t hold transphobic positions like the wrong belief that trans people are “fakes”. No one also tries using and conflating that their point is right because science even though science has said they are wrong and that trans people are who they are, ie. trans women ARE women trans men ARE men enbies ARE enbies, etc. they even try writing the numerous sources that back this up as having been paid off or threatened into making such statements.

so don’t try saying no one here holds the position to invalidate because you know better.
 

Punji

Vaskebjørn
Ah..
Looks at the content admins deleted from FAF when they suspended me for showing evidence of transphobia from conversations you and your friends have had.
Ah yes Definitely no one around here wants to invalidate trans people and they definitely don’t hold transphobic positions like the wrong belief that trans people are “fakes”. No one also tries using and conflating that their point is right because science even though science has said they are wrong and that trans people are who they are, ie. trans women ARE women trans men ARE men enbies ARE enbies, etc. they even try writing the numerous sources that back this up as having been paid off or threatened into making such statements.

so don’t try saying no one here holds the position to invalidate because you know better.
Oh Lucy, I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you had any evidence of me being transphobic, why did you post slander attacking my friends and even perfect strangers on the same server as me, instead of anything I've said directly?

Please don't get yourself permabanned.

Beyond this, I suggest to talk to the individual in question about his opinions and beliefs. Things are much more nuanced than you'd like them to seem, so much as I can tell.
 

Fallowfox

Are we moomin, or are we dancer?
@Punji

Basically I'm sure you can find somebody on youtube with an unreasonable take, right?

Often weird takes like this are picked up and argued vehemently against. People end up incorrectly believing that this is what 'progressive' people truly want- and the consequence of that is political obstacles to what people really want- which is just liberty and equality.

For example most of us gay people who wanted equal access to marriage weren't interested in *forcing* priests to conduct a same sex ceremony if they didn't want to- but the debate about religious freedom to refuse to marry same sex couples became one of the biggest fears shared among circles of people who opposed us being able to marry, until it became a politically relevant piece of rhetoric.

The same thing has happened to trans people regularly. For example If they want to be able to change their legal gender, they get accused of wanting to allow predators into women's bathrooms...and we lose sight of the fact that nobody is actually on the door of women's bathrooms checking people's legal gender in the first place.
 
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