Upon the touchy subject of furries and real fur.

[Gavrill]

Read through the thread it was mentioned at least once somewhere. And I am sure I once heard about it on a documentary once quite sometime ago...

EDIT: I agree with the part about being hypocritical of fur if you own leather. I have a leather wallet, but it was a gift, not something I'd buy with my own money.

I looked up wikipedia and it doesn't mention the animals being skinned alive as being part of the controversy. I'll look up more but I don't think it's practiced.

Edit: In China it's practiced to save costs on fur. Easy solution: Don't buy Chinese furs.

 

[Randy-Darkshade]

Well, you might as well get pissed off as Zrcalo for starting this thread in the first place, but as I seem to have noticed, you aren't even a little phased that he is perfectly fine with hunting animals for sport--which I'm not. All I'm saying is that except for those three families of animals--and I don't know why, it's just a sort of psychological block on my part--I would rather kill an animal than die myself, but I find the idea of hunting SPECIFICALLY for sport or trophy-collecting sick. No, we don't NEED leather wallets--but we don't really need wallets at all, do we? Or pants. Or coats. Hell, we don't even need clothes, but we wear them anyway, don't we? How the fuck should I know what the difference is between leather and fur? They both come from animals--it's just that I find fur articles sickening, and I don't usually find leather bothering.
And, by the way, fur is a HELL of a lot warmer than leather, if you really want an obvious difference that I doubt you could think of yourself.

If Zrcalo wants to hunt for sport that is up to him. I could yell at him if I wanted but I doubt it would make any difference. I have said before somewhere on these forums that I don't agree with hunting for the fun of it.

What I was getting at leather and fur wise is, that an animal has to die to get either, same with meat, and more often or not on some type of farm, this is why I fail to see why some people are fine with farming for leather, hide and meat but not fur, when really there is not much difference between the farms.

No, I don't like hunting for sport, so I highly dissagree with fox hunting for example, however I am not going to chase a hunt protesting the fact I don't like what they do, because I doubt if I did so, that it would change anything. I am not going to dislike Zrcalo for hunting for sport, I just dislike what he does.

 

[Randy-Darkshade]

I looked up wikipedia and it doesn't mention the animals being skinned alive as being part of the controversy. I'll look up more but I don't think it's practiced.

Edit: In China it's practiced to save costs on fur. Easy solution: Don't buy Chinese furs.

I was about to say, it was a very long time ago I saw the documentary about it, so maybe these days things in the fur farm industry has changed.

I wouldn't by fur anyway XD, not with my own money.

 

[Vatz]

I wouldn't by fur anyway XD, not with my own money.

So if you buy fur with somebody else's money, it's perfectly okay?

EDIT: Damn, I'm confused. Not meaning to imply anything.

 

[Wyla]

No problem with it but I'd prefer it wasn't farmed, or that the rest of the animal was used. I have a lovely reindeer pelt from a Norwegian reindeer farmer - the steak I bought with it was delicious <3 My longterm plan is to raise and breed rabbits for fur and I know I'll sure as hell be tanning those pelts.

I have a bunny from the local butcher in the freezer right now as it so happens :v


Ninja-edit: Re the animals being skinned alive - I realise there is that one video that PETA (giggle) released, but it is not standard practise. Why would a furrier risk getting bitten, damaging the pelt, and also lengthen the skinning process? Yeah. They wouldn't. :l

 

[Vatz]

If Zrcalo wants to hunt for sport that is up to him. I could yell at him if I wanted but I doubt it would make any difference. I have said before somewhere on these forums that I don't agree with hunting for the fun of it.

What I was getting at leather and fur wise is, that an animal has to die to get either, same with meat, and more often or not on some type of farm, this is why I fail to see why some people are fine with farming for leather, hide and meat but not fur, when really there is not much difference between the farms.

No, I don't like hunting for sport, so I highly dissagree with fox hunting for example, however I am not going to chase a hunt protesting the fact I don't like what they do, because I doubt if I did so, that it would change anything. I am not going to dislike Zrcalo for hunting for sport, I just dislike what he does.

Same here, but like I keep saying, certain animals I would kill if it meant my survival--others, like foxes, I would let go and just keep searching. Don't ask me why.

 

[Randy-Darkshade]

So if you buy fur with somebody else's money, it's perfectly okay?

EDIT: Damn, I'm confused. Not meaning to imply anything.

Ooops sorry, I kinda expected that response after I posted.

No, I wouldn't go out and buy fur myself, or leather actually myself but if it was bought for me as a gift (such as my wallet was) Then I would accept it to be polite.

 

[Vatz]

Ooops sorry, I kinda expected that response after I posted.

No, I wouldn't go out and buy fur myself, or leather actually myself but if it was bought for me as a gift (such as my wallet was) Then I would accept it to be polite.

Me, I would just go ahead and buy leather products, as the animal is already long-dead anyways. As for fur, I would accept it as a gift, but I would never buy it unless it was faux.

 

[Randy-Darkshade]

Me, I would just go ahead and buy leather products, as the animal is already long-dead anyways. As for fur, I would accept it as a gift, but I would never buy it unless it was faux.

Actually, after reading this and thinking about it, I probably would buy leather.

 

[Xx WoLF]

My opinion: If you want real fur, then you need to hunt for it and get it yourself in a humane way. No traps, baiting, etc.

 

[Randy-Darkshade]

My opinion: If you want real fur, then you need to hunt for it and get it yourself in a humane way. No traps, baiting, etc.

What about meat farming? hide and leather?

 

[pheonix]

If the animal is not hurt then real fur is fine, if the animal was killed for the fur it's not right, if you just hunted something like a deer or such then I don't mind as long as it was hunted for food or pop control rather then hunted for the fur.

 

[Wreth]

Eurgh, I feel ill.

 

[Skidd]

I totally condone the use of fur if it comes as a byproduct of livestock production -- leather, sheepskin, and rabbit fur are perfectly fine in my book, because they're produced as food. I don't mind taxidermy, though I'm disliking the idea of hunting endangered or vulnerable species.

The production of Farmed fur where the animal is killed for it's fur specifically... that I'm going to say that I don't like so much. Rabbits are fine, of course, because they're produced for meat, not specifically for fur.

Another thing I would completely condone and support is if the animal died of natural causes. I saw a picture a little while back on flickr of a ringtail that had been killed, but it had a lovely tail. Taking the tail or other useable fur in that instance is totally fine in my opinion.

I've got a lovely suede coat that used to be my moms. Were someone to splash me in paint for it, I would be wringing some human necks, I think.

This is a whole new dimension to the subject... but I know at least some groups like PeTA are completely against all use of any animal fiber -- no wool, no cashmere... I find that really odd, since the animal isn't harmed in any way from it. In fact, I know there are people out there that take the FUR THEIR DOG HAS SHED and spin it into a fiber that they knit or crochet or whatever with. I find it extremely odd that someone would find that bad. Cashmere is so niiiiiice, too. It's like I can snuggle my rabbit all the time. x3

Though for those that are picky about fur... careful in buying fake fur sometimes... I know that sometimes tanuki (raccoon dog) fur is produced in China and sold overseas as "fake" fur.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/02/07/dog.fur/index.html

 

[Telnac]

Really? at least meat farms KILL the animal before they butcher it. Fur farms very often skin the animal alive. I see that as a big difference from regular farms.

That sounds like the sort of crap PETA tells people. Who in their right mind would skin an animal alive? There's no reason doing that would produce better furs. Quite the contrary, in fact.

[Edit]
I just did a Google search and read the articles from the top sites I found. To my utter amazement (or lack thereof), the text from site to site is almost identical. The site all that stuff originates from?

http://www.peta.org/feat/chineseFurFarms/index.asp

Yup, this is from PETA all right. I think I might buy a mink coat just to spit in PETA's face. Oh, and I'll make sure it's made in China.

 

[Trpdwarf]

Personally, I don't like the idea of using real fur period unless it comes from a reservation or something. Otherwise it probably came from a fur farm...and...some of those places can be damn near cruel to the animals they raise for the use of their pelts.

And then...what of the left over parts? Do they use them at all?

If you are going to use fur or wear fur, try to get it from a good source that treats the animals well, and uses as much as the animal as possible. That's my thing.

 

[Gavrill]

The thing about fur farms is that they cage animals that are not meant to be captive, like minks, who usually have an extensive home range.Foxes have even been known to cannibalize each other in fur farms.

 

[Trpdwarf]

The thing about fur farms is that they cage animals that are not meant to be captive, like minks, who usually have an extensive home range.Foxes have even been known to cannibalize each other in fur farms.

Yeah...it's the stress from being forced into a life that is completely 100 against how they normally are. Honestly I hate fox farms. I hate gator farms too. I hate mink farms too. I don't mind it when someone buys from a reservation, or they are using skin/fur from an animal where the meat is eaten and such...but it seems like a waste of life to raise it just for the pelt.

I'd rather see as much as the animal used as possible.

 

[Gavrill]

Yeah...it's the stress from being forced into a life that is completely 100 against how they normally are. Honestly I hate fox farms. I hate gator farms too. I hate mink farms too. I don't mind it when someone buys from a reservation, or they are using skin/fur from an animal where the meat is eaten and such...but it seems like a waste of life to raise it just for the pelt.

I'd rather see as much as the animal used as possible.

Which is why, if/when I become a taxidermist, I'll be offering a free cooler for the meat of whatever animal is being hunted (probably deer). I'd just hate for it to go to waste.

I think it's less cruel to kill an animal in the wild and use its fur than to raise it in confined conditions.

 

[Trpdwarf]

Which is why, if/when I become a taxidermist, I'll be offering a free cooler for the meat of whatever animal is being hunted (probably deer). I'd just hate for it to go to waste.

I think it's less cruel to kill an animal in the wild and use its fur than to raise it in confined conditions.

There are hunters out there, they hunt the deer, chop it's head off, and then leave the body. Or they skin and leave the body. I've seen such grisly spectacles back when I had to take long road trips. That's a better way to go to offer to take the meat, but it would be nice if you wouldn't have to even do that and people would eat the meat of the animals they kill.

It makes me sick. I want to strangle people like that. You must feel like such big men and women, to kill an animal just so you can hang it's head over your fire place or what ever. Is you're penis so small, or boobs so tiny that you need an ego boost by wasting life like that?

Er...that said back on topic, if one really wants to use real fur on a fur-suit even just for specific parts, I think it is better off doing it as a recycling thing. Zeke and I will take old leather jackets that are about to be binned, and scrap the leather and re-use it for costume making. I imagine someone could do the same if they are making an unusual costume and some parts need to be made of real fur. Why not hit the thrift stores or look for those who happen to be trashing fur coats (it would surprise you that people will do this), and re-use the fur? Then you are extending the use of a product that needed an animal to die for it to be made.

 

[Wreth]

I'm completely against the use of fur, any source, any method.

 

[Zrcalo]

There are hunters out there, they hunt the deer, chop it's head off, and then leave the body. Or they skin and leave the body. I've seen such grisly spectacles back when I had to take long road trips. That's a better way to go to offer to take the meat, but it would be nice if you wouldn't have to even do that and people would eat the meat of the animals they kill.

It makes me sick. I want to strangle people like that. You must feel like such big men and women, to kill an animal just so you can hang it's head over your fire place or what ever. Is you're penis so small, or boobs so tiny that you need an ego boost by wasting life like that?

Er...that said back on topic, if one really wants to use real fur on a fur-suit even just for specific parts, I think it is better off doing it as a recycling thing. Zeke and I will take old leather jackets that are about to be binned, and scrap the leather and re-use it for costume making. I imagine someone could do the same if they are making an unusual costume and some parts need to be made of real fur. Why not hit the thrift stores or look for those who happen to be trashing fur coats (it would surprise you that people will do this), and re-use the fur? Then you are extending the use of a product that needed an animal to die for it to be made.

most of the time the people who do that are poachers.
it's actually illegal to leave an animal carcass to rot if you've shot it. very heavy fines.

 

[Trpdwarf]

most of the time the people who do that are poachers.
it's actually illegal to leave an animal carcass to rot if you've shot it. very heavy fines.

I'd like to poach them. Stupid idiots.

That said if you have no intention of eating the meat, I don't see the point of hunting it at all. I don't care if you "properly dispose of the body".

Find use for the skin. Eat the damn meat. Use what can be used of the body and what can't, why not pay some damn respect and bury it?

 

[Ratte]

Doesn't bother me too much since I have some furs of my own (rabbit). Hunting doesn't bother me too much when it comes to furs, but farming is kinda :|

 

[Telnac]

Now that I know all hysteria about fur farms comes from PETA, I believe it's not only OK to wear fur, it's a requirement for any moral person to do so. And it must come from a fur farm, especially one in China.

I really don't care what you guys are saying about the evils that take place in fur farms, because I simply believe all of it's a bold-faced lie. PETA has never told the truth about anything. They find isolated instances and blow it so out of proportion that you think all nearly all of humanity exists just to torture and kill small animals for the fun of it. They bitch about the Humane Society euthanizing animals, even they go about killing kittens themselves at their headquarters. At least the Humane Society goes about it in a manner that's safe & painless. PETA does it w/o proper training or equipment. I can't think of a greater example of hypocrisy than that.

So excuse me for not buying into the whole notion of the evils of the fur industry. It's all A-OK in my book.