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US To Start Targetting Legal Immigrants, too

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Avalanche5

Guest
Evidently, it is no longer just about illegal immigrants. Now it is about immigrants in general. This administration is going after the LGBT community, as well. Essentially, this may well be the most openly homophobic, racist, and insidiously hate filled presidency in modern history. No longer will it be the land of free and opportunity, but the land of ignorant, trashy white people who cannot get jobs - not because of immigrants, but because they are stupid and unemployable.

www.nbcnews.com: Stephen Miller’s next target: Legal immigrants
 

Yakamaru

Mr. Villanous charm
Reducing legal immigration? It's for a country's government to decide what their immigrant quotas are going to be. The US is no different.
 
A

Avalanche5

Guest
Reducing legal immigration? It's for a country's government to decide what their immigrant quotas are going to be. The US is no different.

This targets people living in the US already. It has nothing to do with quotas. Is there any valid reason for these actions aside from clear and blatant nationalistic racism?
 

Slytherin Umbreon

Black Lives Matter
I have to say, half this shit is completely impossible to justify.
They were forced to use Obama care, punishing them for using Obamacare is just sick. No matter what rights a government has, we still expect them to be reasonable and fair.
 
"Details of the rulemaking proposal are still being finalized, but based on a recent draft seen last week and described to NBC News, immigrants living legally in the U.S. who have ever used or whose household members have ever used Obamacare, children's health insurance, food stamps and other benefits could be hindered from obtaining legal status in the U.S."
It is a nine grade bitch to legally immigrate to begin with, and you could get fined $1000 if you didn't have health insurance. That meant you either bought Obamacare or got penalized for being poor. We are talking about people who have moved to the US and started their career path from next to nothing, and are now being penalized because of our shitty legistlation. This law punishes any immigrants that come here to work for a better life, and ignores any wealthy immigrants looking for a better tax deal. We already allowed them to immigrate, they are already working here and paying into things like social security, and there is no valid reason to kick them in the 'nads and ship them back to a country that isn't theirs anymore.
 

Fallowfox

Are we moomin, or are we dancer?
I think Misha and Slytherine summed things up well.

It's difficult to see what the reason for these changes is, other than to make a show of being tough to immigrants, who are routinely and unfairly castigated as lazy people parasitising off of social welfare programs.
 

Alondight

always fluffy
"The administration is committed to enforcing existing immigration law, which is clearly intended to protect the American taxpayer by ensuring that foreign nationals seeking to enter or remain in the U.S are self-sufficient. Any proposed changes would ensure that the government takes the responsibility of being good stewards of taxpayer funds seriously and adjudicates immigration benefit requests in accordance with the law."

Oh. Isn't that pretty much how Australia and Canada do it as well?
 

Fallowfox

Are we moomin, or are we dancer?
"The administration is committed to enforcing existing immigration law, which is clearly intended to protect the American taxpayer by ensuring that foreign nationals seeking to enter or remain in the U.S are self-sufficient. Any proposed changes would ensure that the government takes the responsibility of being good stewards of taxpayer funds seriously and adjudicates immigration benefit requests in accordance with the law."

Oh. Isn't that pretty much how Australia and Canada do it as well?

As far as I could tell from checking, neither Australia or Canada would reject an application of a permanent resident for citizenship under the pretext that they had used the state health service at some point in the past.
Australia does reject some types of migrant if they're of the age of 50 though, and Canada has been known to reject applications for family visas if the family has autistic children.

I don't know whether we'd describe these practices by Australia and Canada as good though, or whether we'd really believe that they are effective ways of stewarding the use of taxpayers' money.
Currently in the UK, we're about to deport one of our best child chess prodigies because his father earns less than £120,000 a year.
www.bbc.co.uk: Child chess prodigy in plea to stay in UK

For reference, the average salary in the UK is £27,600.
 
"The administration is committed to enforcing existing immigration law, which is clearly intended to protect the American taxpayer by ensuring that foreign nationals seeking to enter or remain in the U.S are self-sufficient. Any proposed changes would ensure that the government takes the responsibility of being good stewards of taxpayer funds seriously and adjudicates immigration benefit requests in accordance with the law."

Oh. Isn't that pretty much how Australia and Canada do it as well?
www.military.com: Trump's Border Wall Could Derail Funding for New Coast Guard Icebreaker
And why we spend exorbitant amounts of money on court costs and public defenders to try and fix the issue of people wanting to come into our country and work, to the extreme we decided building a wall that will cost multiple tens of billions of dollars is a good idea.

As for people on government aid, it isn't uncommon for people working unskilled labor to qualify for government assistance at their pay bracket. And when you first move to a new country, you are starting from rock bottom, unless you were wealthy and looking to take advantage of our taxes. For the rest of us, you have tight competition for even unskilled jobs that pay decently, which you will need if you plan to get an education for higher employment, or to save to start a business. That means working retail shifts while attending classes, and there is no reason not to take out an grants or federally subsidized loans offered as opposed to paying out of pocket or taking out unsubsidized loans, because that is just throwing money into the toilet and chasing it with burning gasoline. So any immigrant that actually manages to qualify for education assistance, or who is working part time while getting an education is going to be impacted by this decision.
Furthermore, getting Obamacare wasn't an option. You got it as the cheapest possible option, or paid a 1000$ fine. So recent immigrants didn't exactly have an option not to participate in that program.

These are people that we decided where fine to allow to immigrate in. This legislation means the government can collect taxes and social security from them, have them work for cheap to the benefit of the wealthy, and then kick them out when they actually try to become citizens. That is exploitative and fucked up, and entirely contrary to everything this country claims to stand for.
 
A

Avalanche5

Guest
America, in fact, would seem to have a rich and rewarding history of discrimination based on various factors, dating at least back to the Irish immigration when large amounts of Irish people immigrated to the US.
 

Filter

ɹǝʇlᴉℲ
It sounds like the administration wants to lessen the load on our system by not granting citizenship to those who have been on welfare etc. You can either have a welfare state, or you can have lax immigration standards. Pick one. You can't have both unless you want to run out of money.

When my ancestors arrived, the US had neither a welfare state nor lax immigration standards. If you were sick, didn't have your papers, or anything else seemed wrong with you, they'd put you back on the boat to wherever you came from. Family members were separated from each other, people lost their life savings and were forced to return to the situations they had fled etc. And that was just for a chance at a better life. No handouts or coddling. After all that, if you had what it took to survive here (many didn't and chose to leave) and wanted to become a citizen, you had to pass a test. I'm not suggesting that the system can't be improved or made more pleasant, but screening has always been part of the process.

That being said, I don't think using Obamacare should necessarily be held against them. Many people were required to go on it or pay an expensive fine.
 
A

Avalanche5

Guest
It sounds like the administration wants to lessen the load on our system by not granting citizenship to those who have been on welfare etc. You can either have a welfare state, or you can have lax immigration standards. Pick one. You can't have both unless you want to run out of money.

When my ancestors arrived, the US had neither a welfare state nor lax immigration standards. If you were sick, didn't have your papers, or anything else seemed wrong with you, they'd put you back on the boat to wherever you came from. Family members were separated from each other, people lost their life savings and were forced to return to the situations they had fled etc. And that was just for a chance at a better life. No handouts or coddling. After all that, if you had what it took to survive here (many didn't and chose to leave) and wanted to become a citizen, you had to pass a test. I'm not suggesting that the system can't be improved or made more pleasant, but screening has always been part of the process.

That being said, I don't think using Obamacare should necessarily be held against them. Many people were required to go on it or pay an expensive fine.

Welfare is offered to people here legally, and voluntarily, by the state. Punishing them for this feels indeed akin to the rat experiments, whereby you electrocute rats randomly as they complete a maze. Sometimes they get a cheese slice, sometimes you get electrocuted. This feels like a very illogical and heartless stance to take.
 

Filter

ɹǝʇlᴉℲ
Welfare is offered to people here legally, and voluntarily, by the state. Punishing them for this feels indeed akin to the rat experiments, whereby you electrocute rats randomly as they complete a maze. Sometimes they get a cheese slice, sometimes you get electrocuted. This feels like a very illogical and heartless stance to take.
Well yeah, we shouldn't mislead people. Like what I said about Obamacare. Penalizing them for using it wouldn't make sense.

I do, however, see the logic behind discouraging immigrants from abusing the system. We have so much debt that it's not only heartless but brainless to burden future generations with, in my opinion. Is what's mentioned in the article the right solution? Probably not. I wouldn't send them back or reject their wishes if they were acting in good faith, but it has always been difficult to both immigrate and gain citizenship.
 
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A

Avalanche5

Guest
Well yeah, we shouldn't mislead people. Like what I said about Obamacare. Penalizing them for using it wouldn't make sense.

I do, however, see the logic behind discouraging immigrants from abusing the system. We have so much debt that it's not only heartless but brainless to burden future generations with, in my opinion. Is what's mentioned in the article the right solution? Probably not. I wouldn't send them back or reject their wishes if they were acting in good faith, but it has always been difficult to both immigrate and gain citizenship.

Your method of staying these assertions suggests that immigrants have indeed been abusing the welfare system. Can you verify that immigrants are abusing the welfare system, and if they are, why is that a problem, but the millions of lazy white southerners on welfare is not a problem? If immigrants are contributing to the economy (statistically, they do, and the country would not be able to survive without them), then it is net gain.
 

Filter

ɹǝʇlᴉℲ
Your method of staying these assertions suggests that immigrants have indeed been abusing the welfare system. Can you verify that immigrants are abusing the welfare system, and if they are, why is that a problem, but the millions of lazy white southerners on welfare is not a problem? If immigrants are contributing to the economy (statistically, they do, and the country would not be able to survive without them), then it is net gain.
Race isn't the issue. All races are on welfare. I'm just of the opinion that if you're going to have a welfare state then it should first and foremost be for the citizens of that country, be they black, white, or any other color.

For what it's worth, I also think unless somebody is disabled they should be trying to get off welfare, and that evidence for trying to get off it should be required in order to receive it. I would verify whether they're abusing the system by monitoring how persistent they are about finding gainful employment, even if there is none and they're at least trying. Proof of submitted job applications etc.

Immigration is a good thing. It just needs to be handled wisely. Some people lump all immigrants into the same category whether they're legal, illegal, productive, or lazy and unquestioningly accept the whole lot as if they were identical. That isn't fair for the ones who go about it the right way, or beneficial for the country.
 
A

Avalanche5

Guest
Race isn't the issue. All races are on welfare. I'm just of the opinion that if you're going to have a welfare state then it should first and foremost be for the citizens of that country, be they black, white, or any other color.

For what it's worth, I also think unless somebody is disabled they should be trying to get off welfare, and that evidence for trying to get off it should be required in order to receive it. I would verify whether they're abusing the system by monitoring how persistent they are about finding gainful employment, even if there is none and they're at least trying. Proof of submitted job applications etc.

Immigration is a good thing. It just needs to be handled wisely. Some people lump all immigrants into the same category whether they're legal, illegal, productive, or lazy and unquestioningly accept the whole lot as if they were identical. That isn't fair for the ones who go about it the right way, or beneficial for the country.

In an advanced economy, it doesn't matter if people are abusing welfare or not. Welfare is never enough to provide a decent standard of living, and people consistently attempt to better themselves and their condition therefore. The main places welfare gets abused are by regular Americans, usually and most frequently.

In other nations that are not as bizarre and backwater as ours, welfare is simply a standard part of life. If you lose your job, you are not at risk of dying and losing your home and starving to death. The taxes are higher, however, and they need to be higher here, too, to pay for better welfare superstructure. Unfortunately, taxes keep getting lowered. Eventually, and this is a flaw in the democracy system, the plebeian class will realize their error and elect officials who will raise taxes and pursue an effective welfare state.
 
www.cbpp.org: Most Working-Age SNAP Participants Work, But Often in Unstable Jobs
They are working the same, and often worse working class jobs than we are, and dealing with the same inability to make ends meet.

These people have already immigrated here, but there is a whole other process to becoming full on citizens. They live here, work here, and pay taxes here, but are in many cases excluded from social services, including food assistance programs. Those that do qualify have every reason to do so, because we have an economy where even being employed is no guarantee you will be able to pay all your bills, especially since the recent trade wars has put a number of manufacturing jobs at risk. My mother's job is personally impacted by this, and she could get caught up in layoffs, at which point she is out of work in a brutal job market.

Latin and South Americans aren't coming here looking for free shit, they are coming here looking for work that pays. They are getting that, and finding that while they still make more than they did back home, they don't make enough to match the cost of living without assistance. Not to mention; when you enter the job market as an immigrant your resume might as well have a black spot on it for any job that pays even half decently, because there is a stigma towards immigrants that you are perpetuating here yourself. Furthermore, the idea of giving someone benefits and then penalizing them for doing what every other citizen does when they fall on hard times is kicking someone when they are down and trying to get up. This entire policy is perverse, and exists as an excuse for later deportations, because god forbid we let brown immigrants in, with no mention of the Russian marriage and childbirth shenanigans. Because it isn't the European immigrants who are actively gaming the system we want to keep out, its the people literally trying to avoid being a slave to the cartels, or who have a dream of becoming successful in the United States, like so many of our ancestors before.

For everyone's information, we actually had almost open borders, and the majority of our immigration law comes in during times of racism and xenophobia against the Chinese, Eastern Europeans, etc.

Immigration isn't making a dent in our economy or jobs market, what did make a dent was the crash caused by rich fucks gambling everything they had before an inevitable bubble burst, at the expense of everyone else, in hopes of having a bigger piece of the pie when things went to shit. The result was housing being gambled on like it was a trade good, and ludicrous policies of shipping shit loans and bundling them as if they were an asset; selling said loans to whatever poor sucker was willing to buy them. We are now on the tail end of that recovery, and both political parties have undone the laws that were immediately passed to prevent this from happening again. So lets all enjoy the growth while it lasts, and stop treating other human beings like fucking animals, or some social class apart. You know; since I thought capitalism had no social classes right? RIGHT?! RIGHT!
 
Z

ZeroVoidTime

Guest
Now I am depressed about my own country. What in the world happen to "This is a country of immigrants."?
 

MarquisofGIF

Marquis
The US is getting worst and worst, i'm not surpriced that many countries dislike it. Sadly it has turn aganist it's people, is a shame because it used to be a great country and it's technology has helped human kind through the years, the world is in debt with US but unfortunately is getting lower and lower on the lists of best places to live, it makes me sad.
 

Mikazuki Marazhu

I hate you all
Happy little dumpster fires small.jpg
 

Ludwig Linkermann

Well-Known Member
Might I inquire what this has to do with the furry fandom? It does spark my curiosity that your entire post history consists of political statements. If I may, what is your purpose for being on this forum? It is certainly not for fandom related discussion I must observe.
He's either trolling or here to push propaganda.
 
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