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"We do not believe you are a good match for our community"

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Frank Gulotta

Send us your floppy
I was under the impression that FA had TOS because you had to break rules in order to get banned (aside from some questionable decisions by old mods from the past but meh, those are history now) but I've heard someone I used to follow got banned after over a decade of membership with the following explanation : "we do not believe you are a good match for our community". So in essence, they're saying that they can ban you just because they don't like you.

InB4 someone comes up with the usual excuse, "something something it's a private website and can ban whoever they want for whatever reason" (section 230 might add some nuance to this but whatever); I'm not entirely convinced the same people would react well to getting arbitrarily terminated for displeasing the "site director". I don't care if they're entitled to do that, if you don't think it's bullshit, you're wrong =^.^=

That brings me to my main point : I've seen some trusted members of the community raise concerns about cult recruiting activity on FA, so that wording especially, should raise some red flags. I was gonna ask if FA is a publisher or a platform, but... turns out it's neither, it's a "community"...? the problem here is that it's unclear, and some unaccountable people choose who's welcome and who's not by virtue of owning the place; that does sound worryingly cultish to me, especially knowing that furries typically are vulnerable to being influenced in this way by perceived authority figures.

In short what I'm asking is, what exactly is the legal status of FA, what does being a "community" imply exactly? is it more like 1) a publisher, 2) a platform, or 3) a cult?
 

ConorHyena

nazi hunter
[...]
the problem here is that it's unclear, and some unaccountable people choose who's welcome and who's not by virtue of owning the place; that does sound worryingly cultish to me,
[...]
I'm gonna use simple analogies here, in hopes that I get my point across because you seem somewhat confused by the legal statuses of websites like these.

In the essence it is like a flat that you own, or a piece of property. You can open your door to people on the streets outside, you can invite them to wander around freely on your property, you can set up a set of house rules that can be whatever you like, but at the same time you can at any point decide to throw everyone you don't like back out on the streets, and if they don't do what you want them to do, you can call the police to enforce this.

FAF works much the same way - you're here because the owners allow you to be here and they can, at any point, revoke this and kick you out, for no reason but their own fancy.

This has nothing to do with cults - this is how the legal framework around owned property has worked since a very long time.

You may want to read this to inform yourself further about what a cult consists of.
 

Minerva_Minx

CDC predicts zombies...
Cult of Our Lady of Thirst and Perpetual Exemption? Wondered where they went.

Community, though legally, third party provider. Though with EARN IT Act and the last 6 or 7 months with section 230 of the Communications Decency Act issues I am not surprised.

But, yes, I am in agreement with Conor that it mzy suck, but their house, their rules.
 

ConorHyena

nazi hunter
I'm not really interested in analogies there, I would like to know the legal status. If the status doesn't match, analogies are meaningless.
Then maybe you should consult a lawyer - they are more likely to know the intrinciacies of things like this - I assume FA or FAF are hosted in the states so somene who does US law will propably be able to help you out, regardless of that I'm fairly sure in the end it's going to go down the route of FA providing a service to you under the contractual limitations you agreed on beforehand, and in this contract they reserve the right to terminate the service to you for whatever reason of their own choosing, and I'm fairly sure this is legally above board - with dispositive norms in contract law things like this are entirely possible.
 

Telnac

Fundamentalist Heretic
I think a better analogy is like a club. Imagine there's a club for Marvel comic fans and someone joins who keeps going on about how great Superman is. Even if he's not violating a rule it's fair to say that he'd be asked to leave because he's not a good fit for being a member of that club.
 

Frank Gulotta

Send us your floppy
I think a better analogy is like a club. Imagine there's a club for Marvel comic fans and someone joins who keeps going on about how great Superman is. Even if he's not violating a rule it's fair to say that he'd be asked to leave because he's not a good fit for being a member of that club.
Asked to leave maybe? that's a far cry from getting kicked out

And again I would like to know if FA falls under a legal description similar to a club
 

Telnac

Fundamentalist Heretic
Asked to leave maybe? that's a far cry from getting kicked out

And again I would like to know if FA falls under a legal description similar to a club
Good point. I don't know about the legal stuff.
 

Odysseus

Well-Known Member
As far as I know, it legally works just like connor said. They own the website, and are allowing users to be here. Thus they reserve the right to, at any time, ask people to leave. If said people don't leave, they will be kicked out, since they have no specific right to be here.
 

Lucyfur

United forever in friendship and labour
Banned
Is that the entire story or might there be more details here that they decided to omit?
That is to say that at the moment this is a hear say and has no receipts to really back up claims being levied.
 

Frank Gulotta

Send us your floppy
As far as I know, it legally works just like connor said. They own the website, and are allowing users to be here. Thus they reserve the right to, at any time, ask people to leave. If said people don't leave, they will be kicked out, since they have no specific right to be here.
Again I would like to hear about the legal status, surely there's one

Not to mention the website wouldn't be much without its users would it
 

ConorHyena

nazi hunter
Again I would like to hear about the legal status, surely there's one
The website is a service provider and the users are the clients. The basis of their relationship is the terms and conditions both parties agreed upon before the service was rendered.

that's pretty much the legal status. FA and FAF provide a certain service (in case of FAF it's a forum to talk about furry shit) much like a hairdressers or, say, a business consultant does.
 

Frank Gulotta

Send us your floppy
The basis of their relationship is the terms and conditions both parties agreed upon before the service was rendered
Then shouldn't they add "we reserve a right to kick you out if we don't like you"? because that's currently lacking

Also we've already established you're of no help regarding the legal issues, why do you keep responding?
 

Lucyfur

United forever in friendship and labour
Banned
Then shouldn't they add "we reserve a right to kick you out if we don't like you"? because that's currently lacking

Also we've already established you're of no help regarding the legal issues, why do you keep responding?
BUT is that what actually happened?

Right now you are levying claims but providing zero evidence to back them up.

Perhaps your acquaintance did do something 'wrong' and is just saying that they were banned for "nothing".
 

ConorHyena

nazi hunter
Then shouldn't they add "we reserve a right to kick you out if we don't like you"? because that's currently lacking

Also we've already established you're of no help regarding the legal issues, why do you keep responding?
"We may remove or modify any Content submitted at any time, with or without cause, with or without notice. Requests for Content to be removed or modified will be undertaken only at our discretion. We may terminate your access to all or any part of the Service at any time, with or without cause, with or without notice."

source: https://forums.furaffinity.net/help/terms/
 

Stray Cat Terry

고먐미
From the impressions I got from every single place around the world(including internet) during my short life, this particular issue(?) has nothing for you to handle with. I mean, you--and also pretty much everyone else including myself here, perhaps except the authorities--are basically powerless.

And of course, as far as I know it right, you--and again, also us including myself--don't have rights to be informed about what 'idea' the authorities have in mind. So.... meh.
Not that I'm against you, though. I understand your frustration but again--that'll only disturb yourself without changing anything much, if not at all.

My 'strategy' here is to stay low and avoid catching attentions that may potentially get myself into critical issues. Welp, maybe I just did now, but whatever.
 

Frank Gulotta

Send us your floppy
From the impressions I got from every single place around the world(including internet) during my short life, this particular issue(?) has nothing for you to handle with. I mean, you--and also pretty much everyone else including myself here, perhaps except the authorities--are basically powerless.

And of course, as far as I know it right, you--and again, also us including myself--don't have rights to be informed about what 'idea' the authorities have in mind. So.... meh.
Not that I'm against you, though. I understand your frustration but again--that'll only disturb yourself without changing anything much, if not at all.

My 'strategy' here is to stay low and avoid catching attentions that may potentially get myself into critical issues. Welp, maybe I just did now, but whatever.
So you're saying that authorities stink? nothing new under the sun then
 

Stray Cat Terry

고먐미
So you're saying that authorities stink? nothing new under the sun then

I never said that, while it might.. have sounded so.

For me, it's more like... a natural thing? It's natural like gravity for me... And we don't usually blame gravity seriously. Hopefully you got what I mean UwU
 

Frank Gulotta

Send us your floppy
I never said that, while it might.. have sounded so.

For me, it's more like... a natural thing? It's natural like gravity for me... And we don't usually blame gravity seriously. Hopefully you got what I mean UwU
Well, gravity is sort of a pure thing, which is not the case of power-tripping creeps
 

Lucyfur

United forever in friendship and labour
Banned
Well, gravity is sort of a pure thing, which is not the case of power-tripping creeps
Still curious where evidence is to your claims here as you keep stacking more heat say and accusations without receipts.
 

ben909

vaporeon with Axolotl gill array as neck fin
Their site rules say that they can stop the service “with or without cause, with or without notice.”

so if you are asking that, they can officially do what ever they want
 

Frank Gulotta

Send us your floppy
Their site rules say that they can stop the service “with or without cause, with or without notice.”

so if you are asking that, they can officially do what ever they want
See that's why I'm asking for a legal status of some sort instead of 12 users wasting my time, a store could write "we reserve the right to deny service to anyone for any reason", wouldn't mean that would fly or be acceptable
 
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