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TyraWadman

The Brutally Honest Man-Child
...from a friend right now? Even if we conquered another milestone last week, that doesn't mean all other obstacles have stopped popping up! You can be as vague or as detailed as you like. Just trying to provoke discussion.

I'm not sure how to sum it up but 'I don't feel like I matter'. Everyone seems to have their reasons or excuses for not being able to in the past, and I'm not saying people don't have their own lives but despite having calls, sharing a lot of laughs and jokes from both sides and knowing each other for 5-10 years, they don't remember much about me. Or our conversations for that matter.

Even though we're not in person, I can clearly tell they're distracted sometimes. Like constantly looking at your phone while on a date, distracted. Like asking if I'm going to blow $500 on a convention despite me explaining my lack of funds prior. Or going to the convention location 30-45 minutes away from where I live but never ask/want to try meeting you irl, despite being your 'friend' for years? These people have chat history they could easily reflect on, but still can't even quote a line on the first page of a novel.

I think what I'm getting at is 'attentiveness'. Or to actually have the willingness/interest to be engaged in conversation BEFORE we start interacting. It's so easy for people to approach me when they're excited about something, bury me under their words and then take off again like nothing happened, so the excuse of it being anxiety is just bull but if I call them out it's not going to make things easier for me. It's not wrong to be excited, but if this only happened once in a while, I wouldn't be so bothered by it!

I thought it would be cool to be some kind of 'unconditional friend' that people could come to whenever and depend on. I know I can't be completely selfless though, because it's exhausting. I don't expect friendships to be perfect, but if I want to have any respect for myself, logically, it would be better to remove the flakes and the poison. But then my friends list would be at zero again. Hum.
 

Valryth

Do clouds look down and think I'm one of them?
...from a friend right now? Even if we conquered another milestone last week, that doesn't mean all other obstacles have stopped popping up! You can be as vague or as detailed as you like. Just trying to provoke discussion.

I'm not sure how to sum it up but 'I don't feel like I matter'. Everyone seems to have their reasons or excuses for not being able to in the past, and I'm not saying people don't have their own lives but despite having calls, sharing a lot of laughs and jokes from both sides and knowing each other for 5-10 years, they don't remember much about me. Or our conversations for that matter.

Even though we're not in person, I can clearly tell they're distracted sometimes. Like constantly looking at your phone while on a date, distracted. Like asking if I'm going to blow $500 on a convention despite me explaining my lack of funds prior. Or going to the convention location 30-45 minutes away from where I live but never ask/want to try meeting you irl, despite being your 'friend' for years? These people have chat history they could easily reflect on, but still can't even quote a line on the first page of a novel.

I think what I'm getting at is 'attentiveness'. Or to actually have the willingness/interest to be engaged in conversation BEFORE we start interacting. It's so easy for people to approach me when they're excited about something, bury me under their words and then take off again like nothing happened, so the excuse of it being anxiety is just bull but if I call them out it's not going to make things easier for me. It's not wrong to be excited, but if this only happened once in a while, I wouldn't be so bothered by it!

I thought it would be cool to be some kind of 'unconditional friend' that people could come to whenever and depend on. I know I can't be completely selfless though, because it's exhausting. I don't expect friendships to be perfect, but if I want to have any respect for myself, logically, it would be better to remove the flakes and the poison. But then my friends list would be at zero again. Hum.

This is actually... Woah. I think that these are the exact same issues I have with most friends too, and I was always worried that I was just being too picky or demanding for no reason.

It's really like people don't put it any effort unless it's convenient to them, and it's really a shame. More often than not I get people who want to talk to me and they're quick to shower me in praise and and all that but then they usually tend to drift away as soon as they get bored of me or take me for granted, and it's really a shame. I think that this is due to the fact that proper friendship takes a lot of time to build, yet nowadays people are too quick to jump from one thing to the other, always seeking the next best thing but always left with nothing. Which could also be a reason as to why so many people feel lonely/empty, but then again that's not entire related to what I wanted to say.

At this point, I am also to blame. Instead of staying committed myself, I've been gradually backing off from friends who back off from me, and maybe persisting could lead to a different future, who knows? Maybe I didn't come off as interested either, how would I know? It's easy to blame the other part, but after seeing this happen to me so consistently, I worry if I'm not the problem.

The few times I've gotten close to making decent friends online usually have people comment on my attentiveness at first, and I guess that it's flattering because while a lot of people couldn't care less about what others have to say, I'd remember something such as someone's allergies or favourite artists or even just the type of weather they commented on how much they loved on that one day. Just like you, however, hyperattentiveness goes both ways, and I find it easy to tell when things are derailing out of pure lack of interest, which often leads the friendship to a dead end. A lot people are inconsistent within themselves, and I'm still trying to discover if the reason why this happens is because initial contact goes through a "honeymoon phase" or if I'm simply someone who gets worse over time?

I'm pretty sure I have a ton of flaws (I mean, just my reply to this post manifests quite a few of them) but I really wish that people could do a better job at being friends if that's what they want to call themselves. I know we're all different, and in my case I acknowledge that I have a pretty good memory, but if we had a "proper" conversation about something, why would you go and ask/state something the next day that completely goes against everything I've mentioned? It seems counterproductive. (Kind of like the person asking you if you were going to bring a lot of money to a con despite you saying you were going through financial struggles)

I like to hope that this is just a phase of life, and that we're all slowly gravitating towards the people who we are supposed to connect with and establish genuine bonds with! After all, not everyone should be met with this right away. In my case, I'm glad that I know a couple of people who I can call proper friends, but like you mentioned, each person ends up fulfilling a certain type of need and sometimes they aren't the one you need at the time! (And maybe we do a bad job at catering to theirs at crucial moments too, who knows?)

I think that attentiveness would be the same thing for me, but honestly, I don't even know what to describe as my true desire right now. I don't want to elaborate on this as it will probably seem quite arrogant from my part, but I wish that I would meet someone that would do for me some things I frequently do for them, too.

This is more on the tone of a rant, so I'll warn now to avoid unwilling readers to have to bother with it, but this thread reminded me of a situation that still weighs on me a little. I had this really close irl friend who was pretty much as close as I had ever been with someone, but after a few years I felt like it was really one-sided and I eventually grew distant from her, which just made her angry. I don't really know how to explain our friendship because it would take too long, but I really did everything for that girl, unconditionally. I knew she wasn't doing well because of whatever reason and I would surprise her at her place and keep her company so that she wouldn't get sadder than she already was; I'd stay on call for her with hours if she needed, even if I had important things that I should have been doing; I'd often treat her even though I really don't have many resources myself, only because I knew that was sometimes in a rougher situation financially... I remember that there was this time shortly before she got angry with me that she was at work but she was really stressed because she lost her transport pass and she worked really far from home, so I headed her way even though I had just settled at the uni library to start studying, and not only did I make a point of walking her all the way to the closest train station (which wasn't really close, hence her not knowing the way) but I also paid another monthly pass for her so that she wouldn't have to worry about not being able to afford it (it was still her first month at work). Honestly, I'm really glad that I did this, because to me she deserved it, but it eventually started weighing on me when my problems were then disproportionately met with "oh I'm sorry to hear that's really bad" that showed no desire to even try and and understand over a short text message when I kinda tried to "run from home" just to let her know that she wasn't alone. I mean, we lived really far from each other, but over our years of friendship she didn't come to my area a single time, and ultimately she really just took me for granted which was a shame. Then she got sad once I started backing away, but like... It was normal! I was starting to mature and figure out that maybe I wasn't genuinely happy with her, and she couldn't see any problem in her ways, so now we don't really talk anymore.

I'm sorry for talking so much, but I guess that this really got me thinking. In a way, all life experiences are good because they allow us to prepare better for a more positive approach in the future, but I'm at that point where I feel like I was happier before starting to try and care about my own feelings and desires, because now it really just feels like they won't be met anytime soon! Either way, hope is important to have, and I would hope that you're able to keep some for yourself and that you may find your own pack in the future.
 

TyraWadman

The Brutally Honest Man-Child
At this point, I am also to blame. Instead of staying committed myself, I've been gradually backing off from friends who back off from me, and maybe persisting could lead to a different future, who knows? Maybe I didn't come off as interested either, how would I know? It's easy to blame the other part, but after seeing this happen to me so consistently, I worry if I'm not the problem.

The few times I've gotten close to making decent friends online usually have people comment on my attentiveness at first, and I guess that it's flattering because while a lot of people couldn't care less about what others have to say, I'd remember something such as someone's allergies or favourite artists or even just the type of weather they commented on how much they loved on that one day. Just like you, however, hyperattentiveness goes both ways, and I find it easy to tell when things are derailing out of pure lack of interest, which often leads the friendship to a dead end. A lot people are inconsistent within themselves, and I'm still trying to discover if the reason why this happens is because initial contact goes through a "honeymoon phase" or if I'm simply someone who gets worse over time?

This hits me all the time. I start second guessing everything and wonder if I'm the crazy one. But then I realize they can name their favorite pokemon out of the newest release and I have to accept that it's probably just where their current priorities lie.

I'm pretty sure I have a ton of flaws (I mean, just my reply to this post manifests quite a few of them) but I really wish that people could do a better job at being friends if that's what they want to call themselves. I know we're all different, and in my case I acknowledge that I have a pretty good memory, but if we had a "proper" conversation about something, why would you go and ask/state something the next day that completely goes against everything I've mentioned? It seems counterproductive. (Kind of like the person asking you if you were going to bring a lot of money to a con despite you saying you were going through financial struggles)

I like to hope that this is just a phase of life, and that we're all slowly gravitating towards the people who we are supposed to connect with and establish genuine bonds with! After all, not everyone should be met with this right away. In my case, I'm glad that I know a couple of people who I can call proper friends, but like you mentioned, each person ends up fulfilling a certain type of need and sometimes they aren't the one you need at the time! (And maybe we do a bad job at catering to theirs at crucial moments too, who knows?)

Yeeeees! Honestly, at that point, I can't help but assume they're using me for something, whether it be to brag or just wait for me to make them laugh so they can feel something again. In person it would be easier to read- maybe they're only there to hang out so they can get free drinks or food or something. Surely remembering something about a conversation we had less than 24 hours ago isn't too much to ask? Right? I'd like to think there are reasons for this that don't result in 'oh, you're just another shitty self-centered person', but saying 'oh, he just has adhd or something' seems too optimistic after a while.

I think that attentiveness would be the same thing for me, but honestly, I don't even know what to describe as my true desire right now. I don't want to elaborate on this as it will probably seem quite arrogant from my part, but I wish that I would meet someone that would do for me some things I frequently do for them, too.

Reciprocate! Yes!
My first ex, it was exhausting. As cool as it would be to save everyone, I don't have a savior complex. I bent over backwards to help him and be patient with him. HIS ex was a psycho and he had to stand in front of her car door because she caught us together in public and wanted to start a scrap with me. I could see why he was stressed and upset because he had kids with her. They were awesome kids too! But despite supporting him and surprising him with comfort food, and even paying for his rent and his kids when he lost his hours as a PSW for almost an entire year, he decided that my effort wasn't good enough. Or he just forgot so much about me that he couldn't remember the things I did for him. Even when I made sure there was no gray clouds in his sky, he would go and walk under someone elses and treat it like his own. He tried to preach to me that family sticks together through the good and bad, but obviously that has to go both ways. I gave up. I was exhausted. And I realize this was a bit of a ramble on my own part, but during the relationship he couldn't do any of that for me. Sex was no longer intimate and lasted 10 seconds if I was lucky (wish I was exaggerating). I don't believe in movie-like romances. I don't need someone buying me diamond rings or touring the world, but it sure would be nice if he could remember that I only like cheese and ketchup on my burger for the 4 years I was stuck living with him.

I'm sorry for talking so much, but I guess that this really got me thinking. In a way, all life experiences are good because they allow us to prepare better for a more positive approach in the future, but I'm at that point where I feel like I was happier before starting to try and care about my own feelings and desires, because now it really just feels like they won't be met anytime soon! Either way, hope is important to have, and I would hope that you're able to keep some for yourself and that you may find your own pack in the future.

Don't apologize! That was the point of this and I appreciate you sharing your experiences! Makes me feel a little less crazy, if anything. XD

I genuinely appreciate your story and words of encouragement. Hope is what keeps most of us going at this point. You seem like you've got the skills and resilience so I'm confident you'll find what you're looking for soon enough~
 

Valryth

Do clouds look down and think I'm one of them?
This hits me all the time. I start second guessing everything and wonder if I'm the crazy one. But then I realize they can name their favorite pokemon out of the newest release and I have to accept that it's probably just where their current priorities lie.



Yeeeees! Honestly, at that point, I can't help but assume they're using me for something, whether it be to brag or just wait for me to make them laugh so they can feel something again. In person it would be easier to read- maybe they're only there to hang out so they can get free drinks or food or something. Surely remembering something about a conversation we had less than 24 hours ago isn't too much to ask? Right? I'd like to think there are reasons for this that don't result in 'oh, you're just another shitty self-centered person', but saying 'oh, he just has adhd or something' seems too optimistic after a while.



Reciprocate! Yes!
My first ex, it was exhausting. As cool as it would be to save everyone, I don't have a savior complex. I bent over backwards to help him and be patient with him. HIS ex was a psycho and he had to stand in front of her car door because she caught us together in public and wanted to start a scrap with me. I could see why he was stressed and upset because he had kids with her. They were awesome kids too! But despite supporting him and surprising him with comfort food, and even paying for his rent and his kids when he lost his hours as a PSW for almost an entire year, he decided that my effort wasn't good enough. Or he just forgot so much about me that he couldn't remember the things I did for him. Even when I made sure there was no gray clouds in his sky, he would go and walk under someone elses and treat it like his own. He tried to preach to me that family sticks together through the good and bad, but obviously that has to go both ways. I gave up. I was exhausted. And I realize this was a bit of a ramble on my own part, but during the relationship he couldn't do any of that for me. Sex was no longer intimate and lasted 10 seconds if I was lucky (wish I was exaggerating). I don't believe in movie-like romances. I don't need someone buying me diamond rings or touring the world, but it sure would be nice if he could remember that I only like cheese and ketchup on my burger for the 4 years I was stuck living with him.



Don't apologize! That was the point of this and I appreciate you sharing your experiences! Makes me feel a little less crazy, if anything. XD

I genuinely appreciate your story and words of encouragement. Hope is what keeps most of us going at this point. You seem like you've got the skills and resilience so I'm confident you'll find what you're looking for soon enough~

I'm still growing up and learning a lot about the world and the way things work, but I've recently come to realize that it isn't always our fault that these things happen.

And actually, it isn't always their fault either! It's hard to swallow, but some people are simply not right for each other (have different ways of needing/expressing care and affection) and it's honestly a matter of finding someone who is really right for us. I don't really have romantic experiences, but I'd say that having them remember my food preferences after 4 years of living together is much more important to me than if they're always financially stable or something. It's the little things that matter to me, and if I'm constantly reminded that people simply don't care then I start to stop caring myself.

In your case it doesn't seem like it was just a divergence of personalities, his attitudes really do seem a little scummy which is unfortunate because seemed to really care for him, but if anything that's a lesson to be learned! Maybe now you'll be more aware of what you want and what you don't want in the future, and this is really important.

Something I've learned is that it's really important for us to have our own boundaries, as lacking them is usually what makes things go wrong later on. That's partially why I feel like I'm more "cold" nowadays, but I'm simply not going to invest as much of myself in people who don't do the same anymore. It's weird to change your way of acting, but ultimately, it's a lot healthier for you! Stuff like what you mentioned always ends up being rather toxic and I think that it's quite important for us to step away from that type of situation.

I'm glad that my words were of some use to you! Hope really does wonders, and I like to believe that we'll all be somewhere near where we want to be sometime in the future, as long as we don't give up!

(I think we talked on the vent thread and you mentioned the way your friends treated you when playing videogames with you! If you think about it, that's pretty much the same thing you're trying to express here? I don't really know where I wanted to get with this, but it's interesting to see! Part of you really seems to define itself through this desire, and it's nice that you're so firm about it. It just makes me sad that you've been going without what you'd consider proper friends for such a long time!)
 

TyraWadman

The Brutally Honest Man-Child
I'm still growing up and learning a lot about the world and the way things work, but I've recently come to realize that it isn't always our fault that these things happen.

And actually, it isn't always their fault either! It's hard to swallow, but some people are simply not right for each other (have different ways of needing/expressing care and affection) and it's honestly a matter of finding someone who is really right for us. I don't really have romantic experiences, but I'd say that having them remember my food preferences after 4 years of living together is much more important to me than if they're always financially stable or something. It's the little things that matter to me, and if I'm constantly reminded that people simply don't care then I start to stop caring myself.

In your case it doesn't seem like it was just a divergence of personalities, his attitudes really do seem a little scummy which is unfortunate because seemed to really care for him, but if anything that's a lesson to be learned! Maybe now you'll be more aware of what you want and what you don't want in the future, and this is really important.

Oh yes. Little naive me has learned that despite my optimism, there are always people out there with horrible intentions. I think the easiest way to sum him up was that he just wanted me around for the convenience (easing his financial burdens, having someone home so he can just bail and go out despite only having his kids 3 days every two weeks). He lied to me about his age, smoking and drinking habits, and while I was a firm believer that I should automatically drop anyone that can't be honest, I was going through a 'maybe you're so lonely because you need to let loose' phase. Now my belief that I shouldn't humor these people is set in stone. It's only ever lead to drama and frustration.

Something I've learned is that it's really important for us to have our own boundaries, as lacking them is usually what makes things go wrong later on. That's partially why I feel like I'm more "cold" nowadays, but I'm simply not going to invest as much of myself in people who don't do the same anymore. It's weird to change your way of acting, but ultimately, it's a lot healthier for you! Stuff like what you mentioned always ends up being rather toxic and I think that it's quite important for us to step away from that type of situation.

Cold. Heartless. Lacking empathy. Cruel. Anxiety inducing. I've even been called snobby just because I have standards on anything at all. Even with something as silly as TV shows. I might not like the show, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy the company or memories we create through watching it. But as soon as someone hears I'm not liking the show, they almost seem to take it like it's a personal attack and cut me out from their social circle altogether.

(I think we talked on the vent thread and you mentioned the way your friends treated you when playing videogames with you! If you think about it, that's pretty much the same thing you're trying to express here? I don't really know where I wanted to get with this, but it's interesting to see! Part of you really seems to define itself through this desire, and it's nice that you're so firm about it. It just makes me sad that you've been going without what you'd consider proper friends for such a long time!)

You're not wrong. XD They were a part of the equation. They were just the most recent group cleansed from my list so now I'm down to 1 contact. Although I've just realized that (for some reason) out of all the social groups I've been in, there does seem to be a 'leader'. Even if it didn't start that way. And the leader is always toxic but no one wants to disagree or confront them.

Hum. Maybe I'll try kicking down the pyramid harder next time. See where it gets me.
 

Punji

Vaskebjørn
I suppose it would be good to feel like I mattered to friends. Sometimes it seems like a friendship can be more one-sided, where one person cares a little more than the other one, and it'd be nice to know that wasn't the case.

But yes, also platonic cuddles plz.
 
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