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What does the community think?

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Dragoneer

Site Developer
Site Director
Administrator
MaLaKa said:
Admin or not. I would not have him helping stop what he has begun.
Arcturus has helped close a bad exploit and we managed to close several more. We are watching him and monitoring the situation.
 

facek

Member
MaLaKa said:
Surely you dont need Arc to help find holes?

Yeah but this way they gain a helper and lose an enemy, so it's two birds with one stone.
 

Dragoneer

Site Developer
Site Director
Administrator
MaLaKa said:
Surely you dont need Arc to help find holes?
In this situation there was already a bug and we worked together to insure it was properly closed.
 

MaLaKa

New Member
Somthing still doesnt make sense. Why the sudden change in heart? I still cant help feeling there is an alternate motive. But hey, thats me.
Last thing I want to see is somthing god awful happen to FA.
 

RainbowEyes

Banned
Banned
Help... Destroy... Uhuh... I've given up on Furaffinity. Enjoy the sesspool. I expect you to be whining about shit within a week or two. Someone who hates the site so much being allowed back in... Uhuh... Dragoneer, you're going to ban me for this, but you have actually made a horrible mistake. You're going to break the site. So... Congrats...

Not like my words mean anything... I'll just get bashed and flamed...
 

Dragoneer

Site Developer
Site Director
Administrator
MaLaKa said:
Somthing still doesnt make sense. Why the sudden change in heart? I still cant help feeling there is an alternate motive. But hey, thats me.
Last thing I want to see is somthing god awful happen to FA.
There is an alterior motive, correct.

And nothing is going to happen to FA. Right now I have a second server being put together right now that's running off of an AMD Athlon 3200 64 with over half a TB of space. It'll take full nightly backups to ensure even if FA's server bursts into flames we'll be ok.

My only interest is in protecting the interest of the site and the community and I would not do anything that I didn't feel would benefit the site long term. I understand that's a vague answer, but at this point it's the best I can give.
 

Wolfblade

Member
MaLaKa said:
Somthing still doesnt make sense. Why the sudden change in heart? I still cant help feeling there is an alternate motive. But hey, thats me.
Last thing I want to see is somthing god awful happen to FA.

They felt backed into a corner facing the choice of 'let arc help and trust him not to pull the same shit yet again' or 'let him keep hacking.'

The staff needs to know that there could always be the option of trying to remove him as a threat >without< giving him what he wants.

Ask the community for help hiring a professional to plug up the holes, or you know, since the stuff he's done is kinda not legal, maybe get the law involved.

He IS being sued over the whole WTFur thing I hear, so maybe a person under legal action for ignoring artist rights shouldn't be so openly accepted by an art community. Nevermind what he has done to that community himself.

Arcturus is not the only coder in the world, nor is he the greatest. This is not a two-option situation. One of the many many other options is Hire someone BETTER than him. And maybe listen more to the people who completely disapprove of attacks on your community a little more than people who seem to find Arc's past behavior trivial, acceptable, or even funny more than anything else.
 

Pave

New Member
Dragoneer said:
Arcturus has helped close a bad exploit and we managed to close several more. We are watching him and monitoring the situation.

You couldn't watch and monitor him before this happend? I mean, just slap an lawsuit on him. >_>

I'm so glad that someone that doesn't respect artists, and thats getting sued because of that, is helping you guys out! =D </sarcasm>

Now, if you don't mind I'm going to try to rob a bank over and over, because surely I'll get hired on as a gaurd if I do it enough.

Also, I'm pretty sure, he was the only person "smart" enough to find those holes. Has anyone else besides him actually done as much damage as he has? He's helping fix the things he's broke >_>
 

Dragoneer

Site Developer
Site Director
Administrator
Wolfblade said:
They felt backed into a corner facing the choice of 'let arc help and trust him not to pull the same shit yet again' or 'let him keep hacking.'
There is quite a bit more to it than that, I'm afraid.

And we know Arcturus is not the only coder in the world. He's not even a coder for FA. Or an admin. Or a moderator. If anything, he's under probation in a sense.
 

Dragoneer

Site Developer
Site Director
Administrator
Pave said:
You couldn't watch and monitor him before this happend? I mean, just slap an lawsuit on him. >_>
It's hard to slap a lawsuit on somebody overseas. It's not exactly like we're flowing with money out of our collective nipples. God, I wish that were true! I'd just get in there with my t---

*stares*

Ok, right, keep things PG, Dragoneer.

*cough*
 

Wolfblade

Member
Dragoneer said:
MaLaKa said:
Somthing still doesnt make sense. Why the sudden change in heart? I still cant help feeling there is an alternate motive. But hey, thats me.
Last thing I want to see is somthing god awful happen to FA.
There is an alterior motive, correct.

And nothing is going to happen to FA. Right now I have a second server being put together right now that's running off of an AMD Athlon 3200 64 with over half a TB of space. It'll take full nightly backups to ensure even if FA's server bursts into flames we'll be ok.

My only interest is in protecting the interest of the site and the community and I would not do anything that I didn't feel would benefit the site long term. I understand that's a vague answer, but at this point it's the best I can give.

I at least, am not questioning your devotion to the site. It's even obvious that you really did feel this was the best move, and given your reasons why, it's understandable that you would feel that way.

What I'm saying here, and people seem to be backing up, is that you just made a mistake in thinking this was your only option.

Let the community see if they can give you a better one.

Because dude, giving in to blackmail is NEVER the best solution, even if it might be the easiest.
 

XeNoX

Member
InvaderPichu said:
Wasn't there already a thread like this?

like 2 or 3, but the more the merrier I guess [/sarcasm]
 
well, im not a regular here, but i will say a few things.

i left fur affinity in the first place because of one of the hacks that this guy apparently did. its just pure STUPID to keep this guy around. sure its a delicate situation to handle since he's blackmailing people, but still. if he's causing any kind of damage, inside our out of the loop, he should be taken care of. PUT HIM IN JAIL FOR YIFF SAKES. if he's gonna keep pulling this illegal shit then put him in jail! dont keep humoring him and letting him get his way. if the administrators care at ALL about what they administrate, they wont let this continue. this guy keeps ruining what alot of the furry community counts on, and if you administrators are going to let him, then its as much your fault as it is his. GET RID OF HIS BUTT.
 

Dragoneer

Site Developer
Site Director
Administrator
Wolfblade said:
Because dude, giving in to blackmail is NEVER the best solution, even if it might be the easiest.
We weren't blackmailed, and there are other options... we just decided to go with something different. For now. I'm sorry, Wolfblade, but you don't understand the entire situation.

Also, I have to agree with others, this thread should NOT have been opened when there is another one discussing the same topic. I know this is a touchy issue for many people (even us) but let's try not to beat the horse more than we have to.
 

Reilsss

New Member
Hmm about Arc, I can not say much. I just rember me on something I got told and what is true: "If somebody lies to you onces. You can never trust him anymore, because it could be that he lies to you again." So when Arc did turn again the people on FA and damaged the page. He can do that again. But he also migth behave and do now a better.

To ban him or let him do this undercover thing. Is something I could never choose about. Its also noting a single adming can choose. The site is runed by a team of admins rigth? And this TEAM have to choose what to do and what not. And when 70% of the team agree to let Arc work under cover, then have the other 30% to accept that. Nobody is a single hero, only a team can work well.

About Firring Myr. I'm not sure what the real reason now is that he should go. But I ask you: If a admin should try to fix normal problem (I mean not such big thing like Arc person)... And the admin does this problem fixing..... Why do the other Admins say he do something bad??

I don't get that part. As far i heared did Myr do noting evil at all. Its jut his personal oppinion to ban Arc. but I think some other people have a personal oppinion about that to no? So that made him to fly off ???? I dunno. A Admin is suppsoted to fix problems, that stay under his power. A big place like FA causes natrual mess here and there. And when a Admin closes his eyes from that mess and do noting until its basical to late.. then is such a person basical wrong as a Admin in my Eyes.

If Myr did something wrong, I would as the Admin team go to him and first talk about what he did wrong. Why he did wrong and how to handle it in future way better....

I dunno if that discussion about him had happen but from the outside it looks he "just" get the buttkick/getting fried. And I'm not sure if that is rigth.

So to keep it short to say yes or no to firring Myr I would need way more background infromation from diffrent persons.

I just suggest the people with the power in there hands to may talk about it befor removing him. I guess in a clam discusion can bothem sides show up there arguments and understand why things happend as they happend. And then it should be possible to find out a cleaner and better solution.

So now if somebody disagree he migth do, I feeled for me that it should be possible to talk about things befor punishing people the quick hard way.
 

Myr

Big Dragon
Litre said:
You like holes? You like hackers worse than Arc to tear your precious FA apart like a ragged boy by a vicar? Yeah. You like your FA to be helped? You want it up? This e-terrorist is offering help, and you go insane. If you wanted to do FA any good, you'd shut your piehole and let the admins do their business. If anything bad happened, only THEN you could go on a rampage against them and start another holy war.
Litre said:
Apparently blade wasn't satisfied with the topic number. HAVE to get the word out (or paragraphs, should I say).
And this is the second time now you're posting the same thing. Please, don't make it a third. You've had one good post and 2 bad posts. Let's keep it on the topic at hand. ;)
 

Wolfblade

Member
Dragoneer said:
I'm sorry, Wolfblade, but you don't understand the entire situation.

When the only people who do understand the situation are the ones causing the problems you face, and their buddies that they laughingly share it with who then stifle you from any name-dropping, it is easy to understand why you feel your options so limited, and hard for anyone to be expected to offer any assistance.

I'm curious as to why all the secrecy. Since Arc's actions heavily affect the whole community, how can the community's opinion be expected to be accurate if you don't let them know what's going on? And if the community's opinion doesn't matter, well then that's not what we've been told by you guys.
 

Arshes Nei

Masticates in Public
Wolfblade said:
When the only people who do understand the situation are the ones causing the problems you face, and their buddies that they laughingly share it with who then stifle you from any name-dropping, it is easy to understand why you feel your options so limited, and hard for anyone to be expected to offer any assistance.

Please don't interject things that are not there. While I don't agree with that's going on I also know better than to say things like that. It's not some conspiracy.
 

Xax

Member
Okay, so now in point-counterpoint to Wolfblade's original post, here is MY view of this whole debacle.

Way way way back in the misty past, FA didn't have an IRC channel and it was still on its first layout, which was dark blue. There was, instead of a IRC channel a flash-based chat app that didn't work very well. Soon after Arc joined the admin team (in a financial sense) he started up a #furaffinity channel on his own tiny IRC server. That original channel is where the group now considered to be the evil ArtPlz hacker trolls etc. We were just some FA users who, y'know, talked. There are a lot of people still around from that time who can't code worth a whit (Kitetsu) and some people who are very very close to the 'generic furry' sterotype (nikuramon) and some people who really aren't furries at all (Nobuyuki) and basically, a lot of other people. (I am the token fanfic author)

So my first interaction with Arc was via him setting up an IRC channel for Furaffinity. He whined a lot on the channel about how the userbase praised Jheryn for all sorts of stuff, while he was ignored or vilified by the userbase. I DISTINCTLY REMEMBER TELLING HIM, AT THIS TIME, THE FOLLOWING: That if he kept acting the way he was acting and Jheryn kept acting the way he was acting (in case no one here has noticed, Arc kind of has attention whore issues), there was going to be some big stupid drama schism.

Over the few months between my oracular prediction and the actual schism, #furaffinity started getting more and more insular: whenever the site went down, there was a gigantic flood of clueless users, which generally annoyed all the regular users. In one particularly amusing (and revealing) example, a few of the clueless users thought the regular users were a troll invasion (we kept mentioned the invasion of users, the regular users are not exactly what you would call 'sociable', etc). Arc eventually created #fa for the 'normal' users and kept #furaffinity for the secret cabal of trolls, which I was sad about .(some of those clueless users had the seed of intelligence inside them! That seed will never grow if we partition them off from all the intellectual discussion!)

Oh right, some time around here I got perma-banned for 'hacking' (I am still waiting for my 'Sorry we used you as a scapegoat for our lousy programming skills!' apology, by the way) the site with ., and Jheryn said XAX IS BANNED AND WILL NEVER EVER BE UNBANNED and then a week later I got unbanned. Just so all y'all talking about how perma-bans should be permanent. On FA, they're really not.

I wasn't happy when aforementioned schism happened, but really, I totally told you all so. So then he moved on to making ArtPlz and I said "Um, this is going to fail and I want no part of this*" and acted as a cheerleader for a new IRC channel that was not #furaffinity or #artplz. And that channel became EVIL TROLL CENTRAL, apparently.

So we've bopped on, gaining a few users and losing a few over the long months on the internet.

And here's where I actually make my point: None of us evil trolls actually agree about anything. I know I don't agree with... really, anyone's political leanings, and Nobuyuki & Arc are (apparently)disgusted by all that talking about fanfiction I do. In fact, the only thing we really agree about is that PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY UNPOPULAR THINGS, which is why we don't really have any intra-channel drama. When we disagree we have long tl;dr discussions that eventually just peter out without anyone getting banned forever. Because we /get along/ even though we disagree about everything. I think the furry fandom could learn a lot from us. :p

oh right, this thread was about how Arcturus is an evil hacker or whatever. As previously stated, we're not a hive mind and I hardly know what he's been up to these past few weeks (something about some *chan site? I guess? Is ArtPlz's release date still November?) and I do frown slightly upon the apparent "I will tell you about this bug if you unban me" request-- everyone knows you don't /ask/ to be unbanned, you just create an alternate account via proxy and wait for the admins to realize they were stupid to ban you! ...seriously. The former doesn't feel like a moral resolution to me, the latter does. SHUT UP, I'M ICONOCLASTIC. But hey, Arc could be a big help, if the admin team realizes he does tend to do stupid things to get attention and factors that into their equasions (and I think they do). He's doing the exact same thing he has always been doing on FA (poking it around for hsi own amusement) only now, apparently, they're actually giving him treats for creatively breaking the site (and telling them how) instead of banning him, which generally speaking just makes a person want to /actually/ break the site.

* I did end up writing some of the templates for ArtPlz, and really all I have to say about that is OH GOD I'M SORRY, ZAUSH USED NESTED TABLES I COULD NOT REMOVE THEM ALL. uh. thankfully, ArtPlz failed hard so no one will ever have to see those HTML atrocities.

[EDIT #1] p.s. Oh right, and Wolfblade? Asking random people to support you is only one step removed from sockpuppeting. Try asking #furaffinity or posting a FA journal or basically keeping it in the community.**

** I should point out that not every user of FA is part of the community.

[EDIT #2] p.p.s. I got on IRC and felt I should also touch upon the bum rush posting thing we tend to do. Basically, one of us will link to a thread in IRC and sometimes, we all feel the need to reply to it. Thus, anywhere from two to twelve posts will appear in quick succession on the thread, generally all arguing from different points and using different debate habits.

(my favourite was on Calorath's thread where he posted that all the lurker FA users totally supported him and I replied telling him that the "the lurkers support me in e-mail" tactic/fallacy was really stupid, only to have Nobuyuki post a few minutes later saying "NO THE LURKERS REALLY SUPPORT US IN E-MAIL" and I went 'sdagfjvada' but by the time I read that the thread had been locked. Tangent, woo)
 

kitetsu

pissy esoteric
From what i see the logic that's spooging out of the ones crying foul about Arc is this:

ONCE A CRIMINAL, ALWAYS A CRIMINAL. NO MERCY. NO MERCY. NO MERCY. NO MERCY. NO MERCY. NO MERCY...

That's what i'm reading.

Really, do any of you even grasp the greater concept of the word "forgiveness"? Try NOT answering that.

Does anyone here also know what the phrase "i backstab because, hey, it's part of my job" is? Try NOT answering THAT also.
 
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