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What is a Nazi? At least in regards to the fandom?

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Narri

Will fly you around for hugs and pats
I keep seeing the phrase “They are Nazi’s / You’re a Nazi being thrown around quite a lot but what does it mean? It could just be me being oblivious (which may be likely) all I’ve ever know Nazi’s as was (Google Definition) “A member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.” I've never looked in to politics in general so I don't understand a-lot of what people say on the matter Anyway can someone please tell me what it means when people call other people a Nazi?
 

Yakamaru

Bara mig och lite bensin
It's become a boogeyman at this point. A decent chunk of Left-wingers like to throw it around as if it's a means to shutting down conversation. A word thrown around by those further on the Left of the political spectrum.

Consistent on the idea of free speech? You're a Nazi.
Defend someone's rights that someone else don't like? You're a Nazi sympathizer.
Stand by your own beliefs/principles? Boom, you're a Nazi.
"Oh, you don't agree with me? Well, you're a Nazi and whatever you say don't matter and I can dismiss whatever you say".

It's a name/word that's become so diluted/watered-down that it doesn't really mean anything anymore. Gotta thank the Left for that one, I guess.

National Socialists don't exist anymore as they've pretty much all passed away at this point. The Neo(new)-Nazis of today are so few you wouldn't even be able to fill up a small stadium. And we're talking about 1,000 people at most, which is across all of the US, not including Europe.
 

Narri

Will fly you around for hugs and pats
It's become a boogeyman at this point. A decent chunk of Left-wingers like to throw it around as if it's a means to shutting down conversation. A word thrown around by those further on the Left of the political spectrum.

Consistent on the idea of free speech? You're a Nazi.
Defend someone's rights that someone else don't like? You're a Nazi sympathizer.
Stand by your own beliefs/principles? Boom, you're a Nazi.
"Oh, you don't agree with me? Well, you're a Nazi and whatever you say don't matter and I can dismiss whatever you say".

It's a name/word that's become so diluted/watered-down that it doesn't really mean anything anymore. Gotta thank the Left for that one, I guess.

National Socialists don't exist anymore as they've pretty much all passed away at this point. The Neo(new)-Nazis of today are so few you wouldn't even be able to fill up a small stadium. And we're talking about 1,000 people at most, which is across all of the US, not including Europe.

Thank you for that, that's helped to clear up my confusion.
 

Saiko

GTWT Survivor
At this point it’s a catch-all term for white supremacists, presumably because most-everyone in the world can understand the connotations implied. Not to say it’s applied fairly, but that’s what people are usually trying to say when they use it.
 

Alondight

always fluffy
It's not really a flexible term, and to be a Nazi, a National Socialist, you have to be the following things:
- A White (or to be more precise, a Germanic) Supremascist
- opposed to any form of sexual deviancy (Homosexuality; most if not all fetishes; interracial relationships)
- "deny", or rather, believe in a different truth about the Holocaust ( à la "Gas chambers don't have wooden doors")
- anti-semitic
They are obsessed with "Purity" and seek to erase what they deem as "Degeneracy". These are just a few ideological things they believe, there's also a lot when it comes to economic stuff. Here's their 25 point program: https://www.vaholocaust.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/25Points.pdf
 

Fallowfox

Are we moomin, or are we dancer?
I want to address the idea that people accused of being Nazis are just 'free thinkers' who are being unfairly maligned.
We should not assume this, because that's the oldest trick in the book that genuinely hateful people will use when they are called out, so you might risk playing into their hands.
 

verneder

onnosel
3C85CAF5-DFD6-4D8C-9C59-CB81147CDB83.jpeg
That’s the definition.
 

Troj

Your Friendly Neighborhood Dino Therapist
I want to address the idea that people accused of being Nazis are just 'free thinkers' who are being unfairly maligned.
We should not assume this, because that's the oldest trick in the book that genuinely hateful people will use when they are called out, so you might risk playing into their hands.

On the shoulders of this, we need to keep an eye out for ideological extremists invoking the "oh, Leftists always call people Nazis!" to hand-wave away legitimate accusations and valid concerns.

Just because some people cry wolf doesn't mean wolves don't exist.

That said, I do think folks could stand to be more nuanced in their language. Just because someone harbors prejudices doesn't make them a Nazi. Just because someone enjoys using people's prejudices to manipulate them doesn't mean they're a Nazi. Just because someone has fascist or authoritarian tendencies doesn't automatically make them a literal Nazi. Centrists might be Nazi apologists, but Nazi apologists aren't necessarily dyed-in-the-wool Nazis themselves.

Being more precise in our language would give bigots and trolls less leverage to play the "Leftists always call people 'Nazis'" card, and would help to drive home the absolutely vital point that you don't need to be an extremist yourself to be complicit in the rise of an extremist ideology.

We also need to resist getting sucked into "are-they-or-aren't-they" hair-splitting games about whether someone is REALLY AND TRULY a Nazi, because there are toxic individuals who rely on that game to distract people from their hurtful antics. If you can get Mom and Dad to squabble over whether you broke the window intentionally or not, then maybe you can escape the consequences of actually having broken the window.
 
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Ciderfine

Slow as sickness but true as sap
Banned
It's become a boogeyman at this point. A decent chunk of Left-wingers like to throw it around as if it's a means to shutting down conversation. A word thrown around by those further on the Left of the political spectrum.

Consistent on the idea of free speech? You're a Nazi.
Defend someone's rights that someone else don't like? You're a Nazi sympathizer.
Stand by your own beliefs/principles? Boom, you're a Nazi.
"Oh, you don't agree with me? Well, you're a Nazi and whatever you say don't matter and I can dismiss whatever you say".

It's a name/word that's become so diluted/watered-down that it doesn't really mean anything anymore. Gotta thank the Left for that one, I guess.

National Socialists don't exist anymore as they've pretty much all passed away at this point. The Neo(new)-Nazis of today are so few you wouldn't even be able to fill up a small stadium. And we're talking about 1,000 people at most, which is across all of the US, not including Europe.
What this dude said.
 

Jarren

You can't just quote yourself! -Me
On the shoulders of this, we need to keep an eye out for ideological extremists invoking the "oh, Leftists always call people Nazis!" to hand-wave away legitimate accusations and valid concerns.

Just because some people cry wolf doesn't mean wolves don't exist.

That said, I do think folks could stand to be more nuanced in their language. Just because someone harbors prejudices doesn't make them a Nazi. Just because someone enjoys using people's prejudices to manipulate them doesn't mean they're a Nazi. Just because someone has fascist or authoritarian tendencies doesn't automatically make them a literal Nazi. Centrists might be Nazi apologists, but Nazi apologists aren't necessarily dyed-in-the-wool Nazis themselves.

Being more precise in our language would give bigots and trolls less leverage to play the "Leftists always call people 'Nazis'" card, and would help to drive home the absolutely vital point that you don't need to be an extremist yourself to be complicit in the rise of an extremist ideology.

We also need to resist getting sucked into "are-they-or-aren't-they" hair-splitting games about whether someone is REALLY AND TRULY a Nazi, because there are toxic individuals who rely on that game to distract people from their hurtful antics. If you can get Mom and Dad to squabble over whether you broke the window intentionally or not, then maybe you can escape the consequences of actually having broken the window.
Kind of piggy-backing off this point: it's worth giving people the benefit of the doubt until you've formed your own opinion of them, rather than taking the Nazi accusation at face value. Because of how liberally it's been doing around, and how willing people were/are to believe it, it's done a lot of damage to discourse and reputations if various people.
Hate ought to be countered and confronted, but people need to be able to analyze "is this really hateful/hurtful, or do I just have an axe to grind?"
 

Troj

Your Friendly Neighborhood Dino Therapist
To my mind, when you start going after somebody just based on what you assume is rattling around inside of their brain, you become the fascist.

By all means, take a strong, firm, vocal stand against bad ideas, outright lies, dangerous arguments, and toxic behavior, but don't start preemptively going after people for committing "thoughtcrimes."

Also, yes, you should maintain a healthy, balanced skepticism about the things people say about themselves and others, and as much as possible, seek evidence before just automatically buying into claims and rumors.

Also: Just because someone is "nice" to you (especially in a first encounter) does not mean they are telling you (and/or themselves) the truth. Predators and manipulators are very good at playing nice to get what they want.
 

Jarren

You can't just quote yourself! -Me
To my mind, when you start going after somebody just based on what you assume is rattling around inside of their brain, you become the fascist.

By all means, take a strong, firm, vocal stand against bad ideas, outright lies, dangerous arguments, and toxic behavior, but don't start preemptively going after people for committing "thoughtcrimes."

Also, yes, you should maintain a healthy, balanced skepticism about the things people say about themselves and others, and as much as possible, seek evidence before just automatically buying into claims and rumors.

Also: Just because someone is "nice" to you (especially in a first encounter) does not mean they are telling you (and/or themselves) the truth. Predators and manipulators are very good at playing nice to get what they want.
Can I like this post more than once?
I wanna like it again.
 

Fallowfox

Are we moomin, or are we dancer?
The problem with this fandom and the people in it is that half of the people here (Including the forums) think anyone who challenges their beliefs is automatically a Nazi. They offer no claims what so ever and barely back it up with an argument. It's just a cop out used to demonize the opposition and assign self superiority. It's a disgusting tactic the left uses to shut people up and keep them too afraid to speak their voices. They figure if they can't find any real Nazis in the fandom, then they'll just change the definition for their convenience.

I don't think half of the forums regard anybody who disagrees with them as a Nazi.

Is it possible to back up that claim?
 

Saiko

GTWT Survivor
To continue my point earlier, something I’d recommend to those of you on the recieving end of the Nazi accusation is to try to focus less on the misuse of the term and more on the intent. Solely pointing out how the correct definition doesn’t apply to you doesn’t address the intended criticism and in a way helps perpetuate the lack of nuance that @Troj referred to.

Edit: An interesting thought is that all of this applies equally to the SJW accusation, although that’s a less extreme or well-defined label.
 

Friskyaa123

狐を殺すのに、兎を寄越すな。
there was some German fur and like, was hard to tell if the guy was genuine nazi or just into the outfits, and I tried to talk thru Google Translate and lol I asked if he liked the band Seeed? Do nazis like German reggae
 
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Troj

Your Friendly Neighborhood Dino Therapist
The problem (and not just in the fandom) is that people often take disagreement as a personal attack, period.

This tends to be more of a pattern with people who are basically immature.

"Nazi" is one of many words people use to express their anger and indignation at being contradicted or disagreed with. "SJW" is another.

There's also a very common tendency to dismiss valid call-ins, call-outs, and critiques with,"Oh, it's just another SJW calling me a Nazi/bigot/racist."

Really, though, I'd like to know more about what people feel they can't safely say without being called a Nazi or a bigot. There are definitely some areas where the Left tends to be hair-trigger sensitive, but other times, where people called out smoke, it turned out there was actually a fire.

I'm a bit cynical after seeing various people basically build very successful careers out of complaining about being "silenced," though.

Solely pointing out how the correct definition doesn’t apply to you doesn’t address the intended criticism and in a way helps perpetuate the lack of nuance that @Troj referred to.

Splitting hairs over the exact dictionary definition of "National Socialist" is, after all, a great way of dodging or dismissing what may fundamentally be a legitimate criticism.

If you've been "just asking questions" about the Holocaust and the Jewish Question, and you greedily devour anything that confirms your inherent biases about IQ and race, it's disingenuous to claim you can't be a Nazi because your lack of dancing ability means you can't goosestep.
 
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Fallowfox

Are we moomin, or are we dancer?
Why is the word Nazi ingrained in modern English? World War 2 ended over 70 years ago, can we just call somebody a bigot instead of trying to find the worst possible term you can imagine like a simpering mongoloid? People who unironically call people Nazis are the ones keeping the word and it's ideologies relevant. It's astonishing really how many times a day I am reminded that Nazis and Hitler existed and that they in fact did bad things. Let it go already.

Also, a word to the wise. Somebody with more conservative values is not automatically a bigot. Stop caring so much about politics.

I have to disagree that neonazism still exists just because the word 'nazi' has evolved into an insult in English.

The persistence of their ideologies are explained by a series of events in history, starting with Germany's attempt to destroy evidence of concentration camps; they wanted to have plausible deniability so that they could try their hand at continental domination all over again in a few generations:

Holocaust denial - Wikipedia
 

quoting_mungo

Well-Known Member
National Socialists don't exist anymore as they've pretty much all passed away at this point. The Neo(new)-Nazis of today are so few you wouldn't even be able to fill up a small stadium. And we're talking about 1,000 people at most, which is across all of the US, not including Europe.
I've told you before, and I'll say again, I don't trust those numbers one bit; it sounds like some crock you've been fed by people who are trying to convince you that they're not extremists more than anything.

In 2008 around 70 people participated in a nazi march in Lund, Sweden (p. 220). You and I both know that Sweden is a tiny-ass country by comparison to, really, anything that's going to generate major ripples. According to Wikipedia, there were around 500 protestors at Charlottesville - the groups organizing the "Unite the Right" rally were largely explicit neo-nazi groups, and the organizer wasn't exactly shy about it being a "white nationalist" (ie white supremacist) event: (source)
Saturday’s “Unite the Right” rally was meant to unify various white nationalist factions against unidentified enemies, Damigo said in his video Saturday.
When even self-described "Western chauvinists" (not a pretty thing to call yourself or identify with tbfh) don't want to associate with you because you're too neo-nazi, you may be a neo-nazi.

You've also got multiple prison gangs, including Aryan Brotherhood, which also exist and act outside of prison and easily surpass your 1000 figure. Given that some of the identifying tattoos these guys get are freaking swaztikas, I don't think it's unreasonable to say that yeah, they're neo-nazis. I'm sure someone with access to police gang/prison inmate databases could, hypothetically, go in and search for swaztika tattoos and likely come up with more than 1k hits.

That said, I do think folks could stand to be more nuanced in their language. Just because someone harbors prejudices doesn't make them a Nazi. Just because someone enjoys using people's prejudices to manipulate them doesn't mean they're a Nazi. Just because someone has fascist or authoritarian tendencies doesn't automatically make them a Nazi. Centrists might be Nazi apologists, but Nazi apologists aren't necessarily dyed-in-the-wool Nazis themselves.

Being more precise in our language would give bigots and trolls less leverage to play the "Leftists always call people 'Nazis'" card, and would help to drive home the absolutely vital point that you don't need to be an extremist yourself to be complicit in the rise of an extremist ideology.
I am all for nuance, and think it's sorely missing from a lot of discourse especially lately. However, I think we also need to be careful about things like "this group consists of nazi apologists" (I honestly don't know if your intended reading was "okay, so it's true that centrists are nazi apologists" or "if you encounter a centrist it's possible that this particular individual is a nazi apologist", so I can't say whether your statement is the type that is problematic). Especially when there's a vocal subset of outspoken not-nazis who would take any criticism of their methods as whataboutism. If you want to read "centrist" literally as "in the exact middle between nazi and not-nazi", that's not the best ground to stand on, but I don't think that's the position that all people who identify as centrist are coming from. (Also begs the sidenote that what is whataboutism in one context may not be in another.)

Similar with the "complicity" assertion - while there's a good dose of truth to the whole "the only thing necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing", it unfortunately is one of those things that runs the risk of coming with a lot of collateral damage when swung by people with a lot of clout. And even when the damage isn't to people who are entirely innocent, I will confess that I find the idea of people who've been basically cult-recruited into the fold taking the brunt of the hit while the people pulling the strings are savvy enough to dodge most of the bullets pretty... troubling. While they've made bad decisions, they were also exploited for someone else's agenda and it sucks that it can't always be the people at the top falling the hardest, yanno?

Also, yes, you should maintain a healthy, balanced skepticism about the things people say about themselves and others, and as much as possible, seek evidence before just automatically buying into claims and rumors.
I will add here that "evidence" can be extremely misleading. Far as I know most or all the screenshots that have circulated of me saying "that doesn't violate rules" are legit (pretty sure all the ones I've seen have been; can't speak for any I haven't, obviously). However, since they've been collected by people who have a vested interest in reporting particular kinds of content, and since people aren't generally going to take and circulate screenshots of a staff member saying "yeah, taking action, thanks for the report", the selection is biased and is based on a skewed sample. A lot of them have also been "yeah, I reported the exact same thing and got the same answer" which, yanno... is kind of how a consistent enforcement system works? So I'm understandably pretty lukewarm about how "evidence" gets interpreted in trial by social media.

Also: Just because someone is "nice" to you (especially in a first encounter) does not mean they are telling you (and/or themselves) the truth. Predators and manipulators are very good at playing nice to get what they want.
Absolutely. It's also good to be extra vigilant if you happen to belong to a perceived vulnerable group that right-wing extremists have identified as good recruiting grounds. These include, but are not limited to, people suffering depression (particularly ones that express feelings of isolation), people with autism spectrum disorders, and nerds/geeks with feelings of disenfranchisement. Doesn't mean every single member of these groups will actually be a receptive target, nor is it a value judgment against them, but it is the nature of the beast to seek out people whom they feel may be most receptive to manipulation and radicalization.

It is also, I would argue, not a fault to play the "I'll be polite to you long as you remain polite to me" game, even if you know the other party is likely acting in bad faith. That's absolutely something that comes down to personal opinion and what works for you, however. I'd personally rather have a bunch of people acting frostily civil to each other when they have to interact at all, than a bunch of personal attacks flung around, because I don't like conflict.

To continue my point earlier, something I’d recommend to those of you on the recieving end of the Nazi accusation is to try to focus less on the misuse of the term and more on the intent. Solely pointing out how the correct definition doesn’t apply to you doesn’t address the intended criticism and in a way helps perpetuate the lack of nuance that @Troj referred to.
And when both the accusation and the intent is bad? :V
(I realize you were probably not directing the post at me, so the question is kind of tongue in cheek. If you have advice to give I'll happily listen to it, the whole topic is just a sore spot for me. I like to think understandably so.)
 

KimberVaile

Self congratulatory title goes here
I have to disagree that neonazism still exists just because the word 'nazi' has evolved into an insult in English.

The persistence of their ideologies are explained by a series of events in history, starting with Germany's attempt to destroy evidence of concentration camps; they wanted to have plausible deniability so that they could try their hand at continental domination all over again in a few generations:

Holocaust denial - Wikipedia

The unironic use of the word gives the ideology relevance. If people stopped using the term so much as a cudgel, less people would care. There is a difference between remembering a historical event and constantly bludgeoning people with the term to the point where people pose as nazis just to get a rise out of people. Nazism was made a part of culture because of people like those.
 

Troj

Your Friendly Neighborhood Dino Therapist
Again, if being called a "Nazi" or learning about Nazis in school was enough to make people go, "Ooh, genocide is cool," then those people had a screw loose to begin with.

At the very basic level, history has shown again and again that human beings are inherently drawn to the idea of in-group (including racial) superiority, so that particular seed doesn't need much coaxing in order to grow.

The Nazis were actually inspired to no small degree by the American Eugenicist movement and by the writings of prominent American eugenicists and segregationists, as well as widely-respected figures who harbored racist views, like Henry Ford.

Now, some attempts to make look scary and evil Nazism have inadvertently made it look "cooler," which has fueled its appeal with people who want to be scary and cool. Neo-Nazis have actually appropriated a lot of negative portrayals of themselves because those portrayals made them look bad-ass. This is why Mel Brooks' portrayals of them are so brilliant at one level, because they cut right into their ego.
 
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Friskyaa123

狐を殺すのに、兎を寄越すな。
I don't understand how any furry could be racist like, outward appearance wise. I think I've said this before, even if furries are animal people, you still have an interest in/fascination with 'different types of people' so I think it would be hypocritical. At the very least I would think real life race would be kind of mundane, and just get hung up over cultural differences like when the Internet makes Japan seem so weird haha

but um also about nazi stuff, I'm pretty sure at this point sometimes slurs and the like super-obvious racism is some people's fetish :/
 

KimberVaile

Self congratulatory title goes here
Again, if being called a "Nazi" was enough to make people go, "Ooh, genocide is cool," then those people had a screw loose to begin with.

At the very basic level, history has shown again and again that human beings are inherently drawn to the idea of in-group (including racial) superiority, so that particular seed doesn't need much coaxing in order to grow.

The Nazis were actually inspired to no small degree by the American Eugenicist movement and by the writings of prominent American eugenicists and segregationists, as well as widely-respected figures who harbored racist views, like Henry Ford.

Now, some attempts to make look scary and evil Nazism have inadvertently made it look "cooler," which has fueled its appeal with people who want to be scary and cool. Neo-Nazis have actually appropriated a lot of negative portrayals of themselves because those portrayals made them look bad-ass. This is why Mel Brooks' portrayals of them are so brilliant at one level, because they can't appropriate them.

Doesn't matter, the way Nazism is ingrained in our culture still broadcasts an open advert to the ideology. Nobody is denying that said people are deranged. Though it's plenty likely they are just incredible simplistic and impressionable, not understanding the true depth of what it means to be a nazi. Yes, people are predisposed towards wanting to be a part of a group, hence why it is worring how often the term Nazi is broadcasted. If people just let the term die, there wouldn't even be any actual self identifying nazis to be totally honest. And yes, I'm aware, Hitler took inspiration from American Eugenicists and it's cultural landscape at the time. Humans are far more impressionable than people want to admit to themselves.
 
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