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What is "the point" at which a person is worth saving?

CannonFodder

Resistance is futile! If 0 ohm
Did you know now there's actually more pro-lifers than pro-choice.
 

Aleu

Deuces
I have to agree with you quite a bit, there. The most good to society, as a whole, is most likely to be done by ending this particular pregnancy. The little thing that is just starting to grow in there probably won't know the difference if its life just ended.
On the other hand, you are depriving an entire life of its existence, and life has so much potential at its very beginnings.
Then you have people depressed because of their situation then off themselves.
 

Atrak

Psychological Egoist.
I have squashed living creatures in my hands before. I am not sure why. Like little bugs, and things. I felt bad. What if that little bug was a growing human being? I think I would feel worse. But what if that human being was to grow into the bane of society? Yet how would I know for sure? Unfortunately, I have known too many lost causes who will happily collect unemployment and welfare while getting high every day for the rest of their lives. On the other hand, it is possible for great people to come from bad places.

Personally, for me, the only living things that I kill are fleas, brown recluse spiders, copperheads (snakes), gnats, and female mosquitoes. Also the occasional fly. Hell, when I was taking a tour of the University of Georgia, I found a wasp in the printmaking room, and I caught it and released it outside without hurting it.

Why? Was it because I value all life, I believe all life is sacred, etcetera?

No, not really. I wouldn't really care either way if the wasp had died. There just wasn't any reason to kill it. Fleas itch and annoy me. Brown recluse spiders and copperhead are extremely poisonous, and I have a little brother to look out for. Gnats annoy me when they fly around me, and no, I'm not sexist with mosquitoes. It's just that I only kill the ones that try to suck my blood, and only the female suck blood. Damn bloodsuckers.

No, the real reason I don't kill many things is because it's not worth the effort. I don't derive pleasure of torturing, maiming, and/or killing other living things, so unless they're annoying me or potentially extremely dangerous, I don't see any reason to hurt them. I'm a lazy bastard, and killing things that can't really fight back is too much effort when I'm not even a sadist.

So really, I guess you should look at whether you think it's worth the effort. Which is easier to live with, killing the kid and writing it off on your conscience as just doing something like removing a tumor, or keeping the kid. I mean, if the parents are failures, then take care of the kid yourself. If you're not willing to help the kid if he or she needs it, then you don't really have the right to say whether the kid lives or not. If it's too much trouble to keep the kid, then decide whether you want to abandon it or let it die in ignorance of what 'abandonment' means.

I'm a very positive person, I know.


I have never counted them, no. So, does that mean every pro-lifer is willing to adopt a potential abortion to prevent it from happening?

Trust him, he has statistics. The damn pervert.
 
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CannonFodder

Resistance is futile! If 0 ohm
I have never counted them, no. So, does that mean every pro-lifer is willing to adopt a potential abortion to prevent it from happening?
Don't know, pretty much all I remember about this years stats was that for the first time in years pro-lifers took the majority.
 

CannonFodder

Resistance is futile! If 0 ohm
Oh, dear. Is this just overflow from the anti-Obama sentiments?
No, it's been going up for the last few years.
It doesn't have anything to do with Obama.
 
T

Tycho

Guest
Womb-bearer makes the call here, if Daddy McDouchebag isn't gonna man up and step up.

Also, it'd behoove her to explore birth control in the near future, regardless of how her current plight unfolds.
 
I have to agree with you quite a bit, there. The most good to society, as a whole, is most likely to be done by ending this particular pregnancy. The little thing that is just starting to grow in there probably won't know the difference if its life just ended.
On the other hand, you are depriving an entire life of its existence, and life has so much potential at its very beginnings.

A life only has the potential it's surroundings could offer it. So again, if someone is born into poverty, their parents are douche-nozzles, and they never interact with those who are intelligent or compassionate when growing up, then they're going to be in the prison system, costing us thousands more dollars a year, in no time.
 

Vaelarsa

resident spaceship
I find nothing particularly "sacred" about life, nor particularly "evil" about ending it.
Birth and death, and killing things, are just a natural part of surviving.

I totally support abortion, for any reason the mother wants to end it.
Especially considering the circumstances, in these kinds of cases.
 

SilverKarja

Member
Most pro-lifers I ran into didn't really want to adopt. They just wanted the baby born.

Yep, it's rather funny how in their 'personal choice' genetics trump adopting a life someone else doesn't want(even to the point of spending hundreds of thousands on infertility stuff), but they expect all these 'unwanteds' to go some where?
 
But what is a human being? I am not sure it is possible to define it. A fetus can be two cells, sperm and egg, or a trazillion-billion cells that all worth together and kinda looks like a little person... but it is still unborn
Technically, you defined gametes (not a fetus), and 20 million fully grown people (in one). lrn2math and biology.

I'm not pro-choice, but I am pro-abortion. Kill unborn babies!
 
The pain of killing a person is lesser than the pain of having to care for him later with no resources - One parent will have a difficult time raising a child, and that should be avoided, not in all means.

I support abortion in a case like this, better tell her now before she locks her mind.
 

Rakuen Growlithe

Banned
Banned
A foetus is not a person, it's just a bunch of cells. It can't even live outside of the mother's body. Once they are fully formed and have a nervous system then I believe most doctors agree that pregnancy should only be terminated to save the mother's life. That said you've said nothing that convinces me an abortion is necessary. The father isn't going to participate. So what? You can probably force him to pay support legally but abortion isn't just a toy for people to erase their mistakes with. Your friend should take responsibility. There's no reason she can't be a single mother, or none that you've given anyway.
 

Oovie

Fabulous Secret Powers
I don't flinch at all thinking of the destruction of a fetus, not when I think of the broken life that possibly awaits the child once brought into the world. There is a shimmer of a chance you're destroying a great person, but we couldn't possibly ever know. Even if I was in this position and would become a great person, I wouldn't want to live such a stressful and uncertain life. I'd want you to off me before I really even took on the resemblance of a human please.
 

BRN

WTB Forum Mod Powers
OP, the one thing to remember about all this is that the future has not happened yet and never will. 'Potential' is a broken concept and what you're looking at is a friend who's going to be suffering for years on her own with a child that will - unequivocally, will - be draining her fiscal and mental resources to the point where she will be on the verge of breaking down.

Every day that brings her closer to that is a day closer to the point that she won't be able to escape it. It's in our genes to fight to protect children - evolution, survival of the fittest, dictates that we feel bad for endangering our population count - but you have to fight against it because you know exactly what this child would bring to her.
 

Browder

Wishes He could Fly
I don't know Sauvignon. I have never known. If you really want to save the child and the mother that badly why not adopt the baby? It doesn't fit with your plans but if you feel that strongly about it and about the baby then derail your plans a little.
 

Wolf-Bone

Banned
Banned
Most pro-lifers I ran into didn't really want to adopt. They just wanted the baby born.

That's their philosophy in a nutshell. Life is sacred. Life is completely everyone else's responsibility but mine.
 

Enwon

Nihilistic Atheist
I would honestly recommend that she get an abortion. Raising a kid in a less than suitable environment won't be good for the kid, or society. Unless you know a good family that could adopt that kid, I really think abortion might be the best bet for now. Women should only have kids when they are actually ready to.

Also, tell her to use a condom next time.
 

Aleu

Deuces
That's their philosophy in a nutshell. Life is sacred. Life is completely everyone else's responsibility but mine.
This makes me want to do a test. If the pro-life people are so adamant about the baby being born that they would protest then I'd have them donate money to pay for the baby or adopt the baby and see how many people take up that offer. Then we'll know what they really care about.
 

Wolf-Bone

Banned
Banned
This makes me want to do a test. If the pro-life people are so adamant about the baby being born that they would protest then I'd have them donate money to pay for the baby or adopt the baby and see how many people take up that offer. Then we'll know what they really care about.

I wouldn't hold my breath. Their kind truly only worship one "god" and that's "The Market". It trumps everything they think they believe to be holy at the end of the day, and despite what they say and think, it can't be successfully syncretized with anything remotely Abrahamic - unless you count Satan worship. I can't wait 'til their lil' book of revelations they pick n choose from comes true and they all go straight to hell. I hope I get to play a part in sending some of them there. Fuck it gets me hard.
 

Enwon

Nihilistic Atheist
I wouldn't hold my breath. Their kind truly only worship one "god" and that's "The Market". It trumps everything they think they believe to be holy at the end of the day, and despite what they say and think, it can't be successfully syncretized with anything remotely Abrahamic - unless you count Satan worship. I can't wait 'til their lil' book of revelations they pick n choose from comes true and they all go straight to hell. I hope I get to play a part in sending some of them there. Fuck it gets me hard.
There's a difference between libertarians and fundamentalists. They're both stupid, but in different ways:
Libertarians: Support abortion as long as it's good for the free market.
Fundamentalists: Couldn't give a fuck about the free market and only do because their party as a whole does, and is against abortion because "omg murder"
 
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