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Why I don't carry a gun!

Irreverent

Member
and a little caution on where and when I'm going will suffice =/

Situational awareness is everthing and the first layer in any defense in depth. A firearm is always a last resort, when all other means have failed. The fastest draw is when the pistol never leaves the holster....because you de-risked and de-escalated before you had to go to condition one.
 

jagdwolf

Just a simple innocent Wolf
Situational awareness is everthing and the first layer in any defense in depth. A firearm is always a last resort, when all other means have failed. The fastest draw is when the pistol never leaves the holster....because you de-risked and de-escalated before you had to go to condition one.



*****Paw Claps........well put!

And hey Nar, did you get that job?
 

Tryp

Some dry white toast please
Isn't carrying a gun for self defence just another way of saying you don't trust anyone?

If you really want to defend yourself against "armed thugs" (assuming you live in a ghetto), why not take martial arts lessons. Many martial arts teach how to disarm an opponent faster than they can draw a gun on you.

Also, there are many countries in the world that are much safer, and have much lower gun ownership rates than America. Examples: Japan, Australia, most of Western Europe, etc.

High gun ownership rates don't have to translate to high rates of gun crime, such as in Switzerland. However, the reason the Swiss have such a high ownership rate is because their isn't a large standing army, but rather, compulsory military service and a well-trained militia. The problem is how easily available guns are in the U.S. That Glock you just got so easily can also be obtained by a criminal with even more ease.

Crime is related to poverty. Every once in a while you get someone who will do anything to increase their standing in the world. Notice the countries I mentioned that have low crime rates also have low poverty rates.

Guns won't make the streets safer, and people with guns won't make the streets safer. It's the people who help addicts find treatment, who help the poor find work and improve their lives, they make things better.
 

Nargle

HOOT
And hey Nar, did you get that job?

Unfortunately, no =( I am trying elsewhere, though. **Crosses fingers**

If all else fails, apparently I can get student loans to cover my cost of living, but I seriously don't want to be in that much debt ;_; I'm already going to a super expensive school...

Isn't carrying a gun for self defence just another way of saying you don't trust anyone?

If you trust complete strangers, then that's a problem =/

Leaving yourself completely vulnerable when there is even a SMALL chance of danger is pretty stupid, in my opinion. Just like Roose said, would you want to live in a house with no fire extinguisher, even though you've never had a fire in your life? There's still a small chance that some wires may spark and start one. Better safe then sorry, yah know?
 
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Runefox

Kitsune of the PC Master Race
Situational awareness is everthing and the first layer in any defense in depth. A firearm is always a last resort, when all other means have failed. The fastest draw is when the pistol never leaves the holster....because you de-risked and de-escalated before you had to go to condition one.
Yep, and that's why the biggest risk to carrying a gun around with you is the temptation to use it as a first-response, which is why our police force here in Newfoundland only within the last decade were, after a long, unpleasant debate, allowed to carry firearms, and why more and more police forces are using tasers and other less-than-lethal means of incapacitation.

It's not bad enough that a gun is pretty much useless in self-defence (not home defence) to begin with if you're not paying attention to your surroundings, but there are also lots of morons out there who would sooner feel that false sense of security and draw it when trouble comes along, not to mention morons who feel invincible with a Glock strapped to their chest/thigh and are willing to take bigger risks that put them in situations where self-defence is a problem.
 

Giorgio Gabriel

You Will Be Godlike.
Isn't carrying a gun for self defence just another way of saying you don't trust anyone?

If you really want to defend yourself against "armed thugs" (assuming you live in a ghetto), why not take martial arts lessons. Many martial arts teach how to disarm an opponent faster than they can draw a gun on you.

Also, there are many countries in the world that are much safer, and have much lower gun ownership rates than America. Examples: Japan, Australia, most of Western Europe, etc.

High gun ownership rates don't have to translate to high rates of gun crime, such as in Switzerland. However, the reason the Swiss have such a high ownership rate is because their isn't a large standing army, but rather, compulsory military service and a well-trained militia. The problem is how easily available guns are in the U.S. That Glock you just got so easily can also be obtained by a criminal with even more ease.

Crime is related to poverty. Every once in a while you get someone who will do anything to increase their standing in the world. Notice the countries I mentioned that have low crime rates also have low poverty rates.

Guns won't make the streets safer, and people with guns won't make the streets safer. It's the people who help addicts find treatment, who help the poor find work and improve their lives, they make things better.



All your fancy martial arts won't stop Paco from putting two in your skull when he wants to jack you up. You'll be laying out with your fuckin top blown off after trying to disarm the thug, and he'll have made off with all your possessions.

Calling the police won't help you when said criminals are in the house taking all your shit and killing your family. Putting a canister of shot in their flesh is the best deterrent for these types of people.
 

alaskawolf

Member
i dont own a gun, i don't really have a big need for one at the moment. a lot of my friends own a gun, ok all my friends own guns lol. hunting target practice etc, their are many uses for one

if i need one ill borrow one, it is good to have one when your walking around the woods here though
 

Irreverent

Member
Also, there are many countries in the world that are much safer, and have much lower gun ownership rates than America. Examples: Japan, Australia, most of Western Europe, etc.

A quick google of the literature will prove this very wrong. In Japan, England Canada, and Australia, the general trend in gun crime is upward (actually through the roof); despite a general downward trend in overall crime due to an aging population. Which is causing a call for even stricter gun controls.....which wont effect criminals. The irony of gun control is that it is one of the few areas of the law where its total failure requires ever more of the same.

What Canada has spent on gun control since 1993 would pay for 2 MRI machines for EVERY hospital in Canada. With 30K+ auto fatalities per year, and less than 2k gun fatalities (of all types) Canadians are not getting good value for their investment.

Odd these threads keep popping up here. I'm still waiting for a furry thread to pop up on http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/index.php. :p Maybe I should start one.
 
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Irreverent

Member
This thread inspired me to go toss 300rds of 40S&W downrange this afternoon.

4 more boxes and you could finish the case. ;)
 

jagdwolf

Just a simple innocent Wolf
Unfortunately, no =( I am trying elsewhere, though. **Crosses fingers**

If all else fails, apparently I can get student loans to cover my cost of living, but I seriously don't want to be in that much debt ;_; I'm already going to a super expensive school...



If you trust complete strangers, then that's a problem =/

Leaving yourself completely vulnerable when there is even a SMALL chance of danger is pretty stupid, in my opinion. Just like Roose said, would you want to live in a house with no fire extinguisher, even though you've never had a fire in your life? There's still a small chance that some wires may spark and start one. Better safe then sorry, yah know?




well heres hoping you can get one hun. even for spending cash so you dont go too deep in debt.

good luck
 

Mayfurr

Mostly Harmless
The irony of gun control is that it is one of the few areas of the law where its total failure requires ever more of the same.

Whereas the proponents of looser gun laws appear to have an approach similar to putting fires out by spraying gasoline onto the flames... ("A school shooting? Why, people need more guns...")
 

Irreverent

Member

50 metres max, one would hope. ;) ( AA batteries have a better balistic coeffiecient than .40S&W :razz: )

Whereas the proponents of looser gun laws appear to have an approach similar to putting fires out by spraying gasoline onto the flames... ("A school shooting? Why, people need more guns...")

Spray enough gasoline quickly enough, and you'll put the fire out.

Peer reviewed academic research does sort of have that effect, when emotion says one thing and logic says another. Kilian, Columbine, L'ecole Polytechnic, Dawson College*, Virginia State, West Nickel....the list of massacres that could have been avoided or prevented with an armed citizenry can never truly be calculated, even with 20/20 hindsight.

There's one gun for every 12 people on the planet, you can't get rid of them all. Criminals and and the insane don't follow the rules, so you might as well arm the other 11 people. You can bet the Amish are arming their teachers now.



*might be an exception to the rule, as the Montreal police first on site broke every one of their department's rules and engaged the attacker instead of hunkering down and waiting it out like they did at L'ecole Polytechnic; with drastically different results.
 
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Bambi

Member
I don't carry a gun because I hate the government. I carry a gun because I
understand the limitations of government.

Subjective point is subjective.


Moving the A------ American R---- through Atlanta.

Solve the puzzle, or buy a vowel.

There's one gun for every 12 people on the planet, you can't get rid of them all. Criminals and and the insane don't follow the rules, so you might as well arm the other 11 people. You can bet the Amish are arming their teachers now.

The problem with the school shooting argument is what I'll call, "El-Oh-El's Dilemma":

lol, a student at ROFLMAO university, never leaves his dormroom without being armed. Today is a special day because lol is about to be shot at by a certain Senore' lulz de'XD. Anyway, lol is not the only student who came armed. So, ... anyway, he's mindin' his business yo, walkin' to his thang, when BAM! Senore' lulz de'XD starts walkin' up to him, wit' his gat in his hand. Without a second thought, lol pulls out his piece and starts blastin'. Afterward, Senore'lulz de'XD dies. Nobody quite understands what happened, and what would cause Senore'lulz to pull a gun on lol ... but what nobody really understands is who fired first. Does that make lol the gunman, or does that make Senore'lulz the gunman?

That doesn't matter nethire yo, cuz another gun-totin' badass holds lol up, saying, "You just shot this person. I bet he wasn't a threat to you, because you shot first. It's obvious: He was going for his weapon in self-defense. I saw you shoot him first, so you're the gunman." Ah, shit. Now lol is in some srsd business. Now, he can't protest his innocence as much as he'd like to, because he did fire first. Soon, more ppl from the crowd acknowledge this fact to. Eventually, teh crowd gets angry, and before the cops show up, the ppl shoot lol in the chest and take his gun from him, believing they got the school shooter.

Moral?

For every school shooting you'd think would've been prevented, more would've been caused as a direct result of having weapons on campus.
 
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vivatheshadows

I tip my hat to you good sir..
im alittle wishywashy on this subject, though my father gave me his .223 rifle but i only use it for screwin off at ranges and stuff like hittin quarters and dimes and crap.

But there are violent people out there. It is cool to defend yourself in case of a home invasion but there are those who buy guns just for home invasion so i gotta say incase everyone is willing to give peace a chance then lets keep blowin each other to Kingdom Come in defense or offense because there are always nut cases out there.
 

Qoph

omurr
I applied to ROFLMAO University but I got denied.

On a serious note, I think campus police would be a better alternative than just sticking guns in every classroom.
 

ShadowCoon

Member
I just carry around a false wallet so that, should I get mugged, my assailant gets away with nothing. The chances of me ever needing a gun to defend myself are slim to none. :3

Besides, from what I've seen, guns tend to cause more problems than they solve.
 

Irreverent

Member
Soon, more ppl from the crowd acknowledge this fact to. Eventually, teh crowd gets angry, and before the cops show up, the ppl shoot lol in the chest and take his gun from him, believing they got the school shooter.

Ah, the lynch mob mentality. A possible, yet highly unlikely scenario; but granted, its still a possible risk. But is it probable? This is one of the many fundamental flaws with gun control. Its obsessed with what might happen; regardless of the likelihood of it happening. Do you deny people the right to self defense because of something that might happen once in one hundred million incidents? One million? One hundred thousand? Or even one hundred?

For every school shooting you'd think would've been prevented, more would've been caused as a direct result of having weapons on campus.

While I acknowledge it could happen, I'd challenge you, in the face of documented, positive post incident root cause analysis (typically after action reports, public inquiries and coroners reports) to quantify it. What's the likelihood? With an unarmed citizenry, the likelihood of someone stopping a rampage before "the authorities" arrive is known and documented....its statistically zero.

Or put another way...."A ship in the harbor is safe, but that's not what ships are for." Life's rough, wear a helmet.
 

hillbilly guy

i gots me a scatter gun
Honestly the problem is that too many bad/stupid people have guns in america, we go a bit insane with our "Right to bear arms" crap sometimes, you don't need a gun, especially not a big one, at the most maybe a rifle or a shotgun if you're in the country, if you're in a city carry a taser or mace or somethin, not a damn 45.
a 45. is good for protection the .32 couldnt stop a cat and the 9mm is a pice of crap if im gona shot someone i want to make shur it goes down on the first shot and i know for a fact the .45 will do the job.
but yea i dont use a pistol i have some hunting rifles and my shotgun to protect my house and my family and when im on the road all i cary is my knife its all you realy need plus i can use it for more then just a weapon it comes in handy as a tool to
 

Seas

a sentient shade of teal
lol, a student at ROFLMAO university, never leaves his dormroom without being armed. Today is a special day because lol is about to be shot at by a certain Senore' lulz de'XD. Anyway, lol is not the only student who came armed. So, ... anyway, he's mindin' his business yo, walkin' to his thang, when BAM! Senore' lulz de'XD starts walkin' up to him, wit' his gat in his hand. Without a second thought, lol pulls out his piece and starts blastin'. Afterward, Senore'lulz de'XD dies. Nobody quite understands what happened, and what would cause Senore'lulz to pull a gun on lol ... but what nobody really understands is who fired first. Does that make lol the gunman, or does that make Senore'lulz the gunman?

That doesn't matter nethire yo, cuz another gun-totin' badass holds lol up, saying, "You just shot this person. I bet he wasn't a threat to you, because you shot first. It's obvious: He was going for his weapon in self-defense. I saw you shoot him first, so you're the gunman." Ah, shit. Now lol is in some srsd business. Now, he can't protest his innocence as much as he'd like to, because he did fire first. Soon, more ppl from the crowd acknowledge this fact to. Eventually, teh crowd gets angry, and before the cops show up, the ppl shoot lol in the chest and take his gun from him, believing they got the school shooter.

Moral?

For every school shooting you'd think would've been prevented, more would've been caused as a direct result of having weapons on campus.

A more likely scenario, with strict gun control laws in place, would end up in ~30 people getting slaughtered like cattle because they didn't have a chance to defend themselves against a school-shooter.
You suppose that is more acceptable than the scenario you have described?
 

Bambi

Member
Ah, the lynch mob mentality. A possible, yet highly unlikely scenario; but granted, its still a possible risk. But is it probable?

Certainly.

People are a risk to themselves naturally -- I was going to introduce this point by citing a case that developed during the wake of Hurricane Katrina, but wasn't sure if it was entirely appropriate. You'll have to give me sometime on a few of my sources, otherwise I'll have to go on "what if's".

This is one of the many fundamental flaws with gun control. Its obsessed with what might happen; regardless of the likelihood of it happening. Do you deny people the right to self defense because of something that might happen once in one hundred million incidents? One million? One hundred thousand? Or even one hundred?

Well, here's the problem: we won't know the odds of something bad happening until we actually allow students to carry firearms on campus. On the other hand, both sides appear to using "what if's" -- I' am of the position that firearms should be carried only by Law Enforcement officials, not by young, stupid students who might abuse their rights just to do something incredibley naive or fatal.

However, this does not mean I'd be willing to hear the position from you that an armed student body would be a protected one. I seem to recall that there was a school shooting stopped by someone who was armed ... do you remember the name of the event? If I could, I love to bring it up as of this point.
While I acknowledge it could happen, I'd challenge you, in the face of documented, positive post incident root cause analysis (typically after action reports, public inquiries and coroners reports) to quantify it. What's the likelihood? With an unarmed citizenry, the likelihood of someone stopping a rampage before "the authorities" arrive is known and documented....its statistically zero.

Or put another way...."A ship in the harbor is safe, but that's not what ships are for." Life's rough, wear a helmet.

This is true.

My concern isn't about the firearms themselves, but the people who might be behind them. I'd almost prefer not to take any chances with students carrying weapons on campus, but I'd be open to see the results.

You suppose that is more acceptable than the scenario you have described?

What I suppose is more acceptable is law and order. Dumb, naive, power-tripping college students don't need guns. We don't need the campus beer jocks with pistols shooting student dorms, or people forming on campus gangs due to social, mass-hysteria.

I saw a demonstration that involved someone being armed stopping a school shooter, and I was impressed. Suppose you could motivate students to actually treat the campus atmosphere seriously, than I'd might slide a little bit from my current position.
 
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Seas

a sentient shade of teal
I saw a demonstration that involved someone being armed stopping a school shooter, and I was impressed. Suppose you could motivate students to actually treat the campus atmosphere seriously, than I'd might slide a little bit from my current position.

Yes, the most important factor of allowing students to carry guns inside the campus is the matter of self-control. They should learn that the weapons are not tools of expressing their sudden emotions, but to defend their , and others' lives against aggressors.
 
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