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Would it be a crime to suggest that body fetishes be moved to nsfw?

Kope

Artist?
Screw the family
That’s exactly the problem many don’t want to see incest porn because it disturbs them:confused:
For real though moderating all the art that gets uploaded everyday is a huge task amount other things they have to worry about like ddos attacks. I’m sure they are trying their best, but there really should be a separation of nsfw and Sfw stuff so kids don’t have to be traumatized with gore and the like. Maybe like a kids/sfw mode or something
 

Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage

ConorHyena

nazi hunter
That pretty much summarizes my point in an odd way...

Just to chip in here - google views FAF like you do when your not logged in - e.g. anything that's tagged mature or adult is not displayed. It's like the SFW filter.
 

Tendo64

Cat With A Guitar
I think at the very least fetish art should have its own filter. Fetish art makes me and multiple others very, VERY uncomfortable, and the fact it's so hard to filter out isn't great. Even if it technically isn't explicit, if something makes a lot of people uncomfortable, just like sensitive content and gore, why doesn't it have its own filter?
 

Liseran Thistle

They/Them
God I can't agree more with this, I hate going onto FA in SFW mode only to see half the submissions page is filled with what is clearly Kink/Fetish artwork, and it makes no sense at all why that's considered SFW when it's literally porn.

Sure it's porn i don't get off to, but it's still porn goddammit.
 

Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage
God I can't agree more with this, I hate going onto FA in SFW mode only to see half the submissions page is filled with what is clearly Kink/Fetish artwork, and it makes no sense at all why that's considered SFW when it's literally porn.

Sure it's porn i don't get off to, but it's still porn goddammit.

Exactly. Again, people can absolutely 100% enjoy what they want. All the power to them.

But I don't wanna be apart of fetish when my SFW is turned on. As members prior have even given examples against the age old argument of "what classifies as fetish" being a bit of a poor counterargument, I see no reason why a sub-category for Fetish Art can't exist to prevent it from leaking into SFW, but also - as said prior - most members might still just not use it. Which is sad, since that makes it a pain to browse in without feeling uncomfortable at best or losing your lunch at worst. Did you know a lot of furries are into scat apparently? I didn't until joining FA. Thanks for that SFW filter! :D

Just to chip in here - google views FAF like you do when your not logged in - e.g. anything that's tagged mature or adult is not displayed. It's like the SFW filter.

That is correct, sir.

I think at the very least fetish art should have its own filter. Fetish art makes me and multiple others very, VERY uncomfortable, and the fact it's so hard to filter out isn't great. Even if it technically isn't explicit, if something makes a lot of people uncomfortable, just like sensitive content and gore, why doesn't it have its own filter?

Reasons? A lack of concern? An iron stomach against our puny ones?

That's the best response I've gotten so far. :p
 

oappo

Well-Known Member
If we're talking about features, FA is sadly behind compared to a number of other websites.
 

Azeleon

gay lizard gang
I definitely agree. I joined FA to share some of my art, but also see art and characters other people made and I have to sometimes sort through an unknown amount of diaper or feet or vore that I simply do not want to see just to get to something I'd like.
No offense to the people who do enjoy that stuff, but it's not for me and it'd be better off for that stuff that's fetish/sexual based to be NSFW.

I mean I would think by definition, it would be "not safe for work" anyway, I'm sure your boss would fire you for seeing any of those kinds of things.
 

TyraWadman

The Brutally Honest Man-Child
I definitely agree. I joined FA to share some of my art, but also see art and characters other people made and I have to sometimes sort through an unknown amount of diaper or feet or vore that I simply do not want to see just to get to something I'd like.
No offense to the people who do enjoy that stuff, but it's not for me and it'd be better off for that stuff that's fetish/sexual based to be NSFW.

I mean I would think by definition, it would be "not safe for work" anyway, I'm sure your boss would fire you for seeing any of those kinds of things.

The term NSFW seems to carry different meanings to a lot of people nowadays, including staff. I'm honestly thinking they should rename the NSFW to 18+ since they aren't using the term literally.
 

Dinocanid

Well-Known Member
The term NSFW seems to carry different meanings to a lot of people nowadays, including staff. I'm honestly thinking they should rename the NSFW to 18+ since they aren't using the term literally.
To be fair, that still technically means to same thing. 18+/adult artwork is still Not Safe For Work (unless you've got a kinky job).

In any case though, fetish artwork should be labeled as mature at least imo. People tend to assume that just because it doesn't contain sex or genitals that it's automatically SFW, which isn't true, and should be enforced more tbh. However, staff aren't psychic so it's best to report these images if mislabeled. There's hundreds of images posted a day, and they don't sit at home screening every single one so a lot flies under the radar
 

TyraWadman

The Brutally Honest Man-Child
To be fair, that still technically means to same thing. 18+/adult artwork is still Not Safe For Work (unless you've got a kinky job).

In any case though, fetish artwork should be labeled as mature at least imo. People tend to assume that just because it doesn't contain sex or genitals that it's automatically SFW, which isn't true, and should be enforced more tbh. However, staff aren't psychic so it's best to report these images if mislabeled. There's hundreds of images posted a day, and they don't sit at home screening every single one so a lot flies under the radar

They're not treating it like it though, is my point. Even with non-fetishy stuff.
 

Liseran Thistle

They/Them
To be fair, that still technically means to same thing. 18+/adult artwork is still Not Safe For Work (unless you've got a kinky job).

In any case though, fetish artwork should be labeled as mature at least imo. People tend to assume that just because it doesn't contain sex or genitals that it's automatically SFW, which isn't true, and should be enforced more tbh. However, staff aren't psychic so it's best to report these images if mislabeled. There's hundreds of images posted a day, and they don't sit at home screening every single one so a lot flies under the radar

"A lot" Its literally the entire front page of Furaffinity literally every day. Idk if that's just the staff being overwhelmed or them being lazy as fuck.
 

Dinocanid

Well-Known Member
"A lot" Its literally the entire front page of Furaffinity literally every day. Idk if that's just the staff being overwhelmed or them being lazy as fuck.
Imo they need to:

1. Hire more staff. Unless I'm wrong, you can count all the members on 1 hand rn, and FA isn't their full-time job

2. Use those new staff members to set up a dedicated monitoring service (basically stay on FA for some hours on certain days and moderate mislabeled stuff). It would also result in faster responses to images flagged by users

It will be expensive, but a worthwhile investment to better the user experience. Right now it looks like all the funding is going into the server and new features itself, and there's quite a bit to juggle with that budget (like how they only have 5 months left to find a solution to SWF submissions). Hopefully in due time something like this will happen.

Premium memberships were just recently added with the new theme, so this new increase in income hasn't been around that long
 

quoting_mungo

Well-Known Member
"A lot" Its literally the entire front page of Furaffinity literally every day. Idk if that's just the staff being overwhelmed or them being lazy as fuck.
Staff’s job is to process reports. It’s not their job to screen new uploads or actively search for violations. Just processing reports eats up a lot of time (I semi-regularly pulled 8+ hour days during my last couple of years on staff), so suggesting that it’s anything to do with laziness is frankly rude. Especially considering these are unpaid volunteers you’re talking about.

Even if it were part of staff’s job to monitor the front page, if it were “literally the entire front page of Furaffinity” that’s the problem, it’d be an unwinnable uphill battle, because re-rating a submission and notifying the poster that you did so in all likelihood still takes longer than the average time between uploads on the site. It sure as hell did when I was on staff, and there’s only so much that can be done to streamline the process (since at minimum you still need to review the submission to determine what the appropriate rating would be).
 

Liseran Thistle

They/Them
Staff’s job is to process reports. It’s not their job to screen new uploads or actively search for violations. Just processing reports eats up a lot of time (I semi-regularly pulled 8+ hour days during my last couple of years on staff), so suggesting that it’s anything to do with laziness is frankly rude. Especially considering these are unpaid volunteers you’re talking about.

Even if it were part of staff’s job to monitor the front page, if it were “literally the entire front page of Furaffinity” that’s the problem, it’d be an unwinnable uphill battle, because re-rating a submission and notifying the poster that you did so in all likelihood still takes longer than the average time between uploads on the site. It sure as hell did when I was on staff, and there’s only so much that can be done to streamline the process (since at minimum you still need to review the submission to determine what the appropriate rating would be).

There has to be some way for the staff to do more than what they're already doing. Because what they're already doing doesn't seem to actually be working. People are just uploading porn to a website they supposedly look after, and they're not doing anything about it because it's "not their job". There has to be some way to take down a submission when it clearly violates the rules, some way that's a lot easier than the current system. And maybe Furaffinity should look into both that and actually hiring people instead of just getting volunteers.
 

quoting_mungo

Well-Known Member
There has to be some way for the staff to do more than what they're already doing. Because what they're already doing doesn't seem to actually be working. People are just uploading porn to a website they supposedly look after, and they're not doing anything about it because it's "not their job". There has to be some way to take down a submission when it clearly violates the rules, some way that's a lot easier than the current system. And maybe Furaffinity should look into both that and actually hiring people instead of just getting volunteers.
Content that violates the rules is removed, re-rated, or whatever is needed for the situation in question, when it’s properly reported. It’s still a fact that removing one submission will take longer than it takes for another submission to be posted by someone. I could probably not remove my own (hypothetical) submission before at least two more show up on the front page, because any system that’s got even the most minute of hoops to jump through (say, to prevent accidental deletions due to misclicks or pets stepping on keyboards) is going to take a non-zero amount of time to work with.

Yes, it sucks that a portion of users seem to have never read the rules they agreed to when signing up for an account. It sucks that a portion of the content-creating userbase either uses others’ posts that have slipped under the radar as a reference for what is permitted instead of referring to the rules, or knowingly break the rules hoping to slip under the radar long enough to capitalize. It’s a problem, yes. It’s not a problem that motivates throwing shade at site staff, however.

One of the big factors that perpetuate the situation where significant amounts of content that is already against the current rules (as distinct from content that you (gen) might wish were treated differently by policy) stays around in its policy-violating state more or less indefinitely is that people don’t report shit. I don’t know if you’re one of the few that do, but by and large people see the violations, maybe even acknowledge that they violate rules, but don’t file tickets. I don’t know their reasons; some are more justifiable than others.

I’m not saying FA’s system is perfect. It’s not. But I am saying that dunking on site staff over people posting shit they’re not allowed to is unjustified. For perspective: it’s a very slow day/time of day if a piece stays on the front page for 30 seconds. If violations are rampant on the front page, all you can tell about staff performance from that is that they don’t catch violations in the first 30 seconds of being posted.

Even if there, hypothetically, were full-time paid staff to monitor the front page, the violations would still show up there for some length of time. The only thing that could possibly prevent that is putting new submissions through a moderation queue, similar to how starting threads on a few of FAF’s subforums works. It was pretty clear from the late days of Yiffstar that moderation queues for new content is not a solution that scales very well, though. And FA gets a lot more submissions per day than Yiffstar did.
 

Liseran Thistle

They/Them
Content that violates the rules is removed, re-rated, or whatever is needed for the situation in question, when it’s properly reported. It’s still a fact that removing one submission will take longer than it takes for another submission to be posted by someone. I could probably not remove my own (hypothetical) submission before at least two more show up on the front page, because any system that’s got even the most minute of hoops to jump through (say, to prevent accidental deletions due to misclicks or pets stepping on keyboards) is going to take a non-zero amount of time to work with.

Yes, it sucks that a portion of users seem to have never read the rules they agreed to when signing up for an account. It sucks that a portion of the content-creating userbase either uses others’ posts that have slipped under the radar as a reference for what is permitted instead of referring to the rules, or knowingly break the rules hoping to slip under the radar long enough to capitalize. It’s a problem, yes. It’s not a problem that motivates throwing shade at site staff, however.

One of the big factors that perpetuate the situation where significant amounts of content that is already against the current rules (as distinct from content that you (gen) might wish were treated differently by policy) stays around in its policy-violating state more or less indefinitely is that people don’t report shit. I don’t know if you’re one of the few that do, but by and large people see the violations, maybe even acknowledge that they violate rules, but don’t file tickets. I don’t know their reasons; some are more justifiable than others.

I’m not saying FA’s system is perfect. It’s not. But I am saying that dunking on site staff over people posting shit they’re not allowed to is unjustified. For perspective: it’s a very slow day/time of day if a piece stays on the front page for 30 seconds. If violations are rampant on the front page, all you can tell about staff performance from that is that they don’t catch violations in the first 30 seconds of being posted.

Even if there, hypothetically, were full-time paid staff to monitor the front page, the violations would still show up there for some length of time. The only thing that could possibly prevent that is putting new submissions through a moderation queue, similar to how starting threads on a few of FAF’s subforums works. It was pretty clear from the late days of Yiffstar that moderation queues for new content is not a solution that scales very well, though. And FA gets a lot more submissions per day than Yiffstar did.

This isn't an impossible problem, though. There is a solution to it somewhere, and that whole system where you solely rely on people reporting it obviously doesn't work. I don't have time to go through the front page and just flag all the posts that obviously violate the rules, just so the staff can get rid of it. (Nevermind the fact that even if I did do that it'd take way too long for it to be removed according to your posts) And the staff have to have some say in how things are run, they can't speak up when they see they see that the way things are going isn't working so well?

It sounds to me like the staff only have one job, and one job only and that Furaffinity has no one else running this place.
 

Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage
This isn't an impossible problem, though. There is a solution to it somewhere, and that whole system where you solely rely on people reporting it obviously doesn't work. I don't have time to go through the front page and just flag all the posts that obviously violate the rules, just so the staff can get rid of it. (Nevermind the fact that even if I did do that it'd take way too long for it to be removed according to your posts) And the staff have to have some say in how things are run, they can't speak up when they see they see that the way things are going isn't working so well?

It sounds to me like the staff only have one job, and one job only and that Furaffinity has no one else running this place.

While you're a bit harder on staff than I am (possibly because I've been staff on other websites so I understand the limits of volunteer work), I also agree that this is an issue to a degree that seemingly only FA has, which is odd to me. Why doesn't DeviantArt or SoFurry or [insert art website here] have such an issue with sorting and ratings etc.? I'm not saying this doesn't happen on [insert art website here] but it definitely doesn't happen nearly as much as to warrant something such as this thread. While I agree that the staff are likely doing their job(s?), I also think that if the staff team cares enough, they should rethink the website's functionality as well as it's reliability. Perhaps take a few notes from how other art websites handle things like this, and rework things to make the overall outcome run smoother and function better for all members. I think it's almost pathetic to say that FA staff is too busy with DDOS attacks to improve their website. While FA is the largest - if not, the oldest - furry art website to date, it's definitely not the most used art platform. DeviantArt (arguably the largest and oldest art platform that's just as active if not moreso) gets attacked far more often, they just have a better security system to deal with it and a larger staff team (amongst other things). DA has it's issues too, but I won't go into them, since we're here to talk about FA.

Furaffinity seems to be a bit all over the place both in design and function. Hell, it took me grabbing the owner/admin through a personal telegram link in order to get a staff member to kick out a self-admitted pedphile from the forum who was publicly and knowingly hitting on a minor. While this has nothing to do with the thread topic, I think it shows at least a bit of an issue in regards to how little the website and/or memberbase is actually observed and handled. Is it a large platform? Of course, but that's why other measures are taken to try and mitigate issues. If larger platforms can do it, so can FA. I won't necessarily call the staff team lazy, but they are definitely lacking in something; be that numbers, ambition, or something else that's necessary for consistently running a website such as this.

Overall, this seems to be one small - albeit annoying, - part of a much larger issue that needs to be addressed, and for those who think it's still not an issue, go ahead and show your kiddies this SFW Crotch Shot for me real quick (Jun 24, 2020 09:40 PM - taken from page one of browse with no keywords entered, just with SFW on), since apparently that's acceptable to do based on FA's standards. If we were looking for this stuff, or it was hard to see in a mash of SFW imagery, we wouldn't be complaining. It's right there nigh constantly, or at best on every three pages - and this is the more outwardly sexualized stuff. The "non-fetish" fetishes are almost every page, and I have no doubts you can scroll through five of the most recent pages and see mostly fetish work (be it "NSFW" worthy or not). It's insane how this isn't seen as an issue. And yet people wonder why outsiders see us as the oversexualized freak fandom.
 
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Liseran Thistle

They/Them
While you're a bit harder on staff than I am (possibly because I've been staff on other websites so I understand the limits of volunteer work), I also agree that this is an issue to a degree that seemingly only FA has, which is odd to me. Why doesn't DeviantArt or SoFurry or [insert art website here] have such an issue with sorting and ratings etc.? I'm not saying this doesn't happen on [insert art website here] but it definitely doesn't happen nearly as much as to warrant something such as this thread. While I agree that the staff are likely doing their job(s?), I also think that if the staff team cares enough, they should rethink the website's functionality as well as it's reliability. Perhaps take a few notes from how other art websites handle things like this, and rework things to make the overall outcome run smoother and function better for all members. I think it's almost pathetic to say that FA staff is too busy with DDOS attacks to improve their website. While FA is the largest - if not, the oldest - furry art website to date, it's definitely not the most used art platform. DeviantArt gets attacked far more, they just have a better security system to deal with it.

Furaffinity seems to be a bit all over the place both in design and function. Hell, it took me grabbing the owner/admin through a personal telegram link in order to get a staff member to kick out a self-admitted pedphile from the forum who was publicly and knowingly hitting on a minor. While this has nothing to do with the thread topic, I think it shows at least a bit of an issue in regards to how little the website and/or memberbase is actually observed and handled. Is it a large platform? Of course, but that's why other measures are taken to try and mitigate issues. If larger platforms can do it, so can FA. I won't necessarily call the staff team lazy, but they are definitely lacking in something; be that numbers, ambition, or something else that's necessary for consistently running a website such as this.

Overall, this seems to be one small - albeit annoying, - part of a much larger issue that needs to be addressed, and for those who think it's still not an issue, go ahead and show your kiddies this SFW Crotch Shot (Jun 24, 2020 09:40 PM) for me real quick. Apparently that's acceptable to do based on FA's standards.


Maybe...the thing the staff team is missing is money. Apparently it's just a bunch of unpaid volunteers, which sounds absolutely insane to me. No wonder this place has so few staff members, nobody wants to do a job they don't get paid for, and I doubt enough people actually care about "Furaffinity" the brand to just work for free on a website.
 

Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage
Maybe...the thing the staff team is missing is money. Apparently it's just a bunch of unpaid volunteers, which sounds absolutely insane to me. No wonder this place has so few staff members, nobody wants to do a job they don't get paid for, and I doubt enough people actually care about "Furaffinity" the brand to just work for free on a website.

Actually that's where I'll disagree with you. While yes money helps gain better security protocols in place, that's about all FA would need money for - emphasis on "need". Official Staff on almost any website you can think of save for maybe popular social hubs such as Twitter or Discord are volunteers. They do it out of passion and do it because they care, and they know going into the position that they're in there to help the community (not fatten a wallet). Coming from someone who's been a mod on several websites and an admin on two, it can take a lot out of you and eventually there will come a time to step down and focus on other things. So to put it simply, they do care - they likely just don't have a large enough team, enough time, or a good system to work with. That said, let's not complain about staff as it isn't really respectful, or smart - for that matter. Some websites can be real ban heavy. :p
 

quoting_mungo

Well-Known Member
Overall, this seems to be one small - albeit annoying, - part of a much larger issue that needs to be addressed, and for those who think it's still not an issue, go ahead and show your kiddies this SFW Crotch Shot for me real quick (Jun 24, 2020 09:40 PM - taken from page one of browse with no keywords entered, just with SFW on), since apparently that's acceptable to do based on FA's standards.
It’s... not acceptable according to FA’s rating guidelines, though? I probably would have double checked with another staff member who actually worked ratings to be sure, when I was on staff, but that looks to me like it runs afoul of what the AUP describes as acceptable “nudity” in General (emphasis mine):
Free of nudity of any kind, as well as outlines of genitalia, sheaths, female nipples, or detailed/exaggerated bulges. Nudity is defined as the open display of genitalia or exposed female areola or nipples.

I don't have time to go through the front page and just flag all the posts that obviously violate the rules, just so the staff can get rid of it. (Nevermind the fact that even if I did do that it'd take way too long for it to be removed according to your posts)
If it were in any way ethical to do so, I would dare you to post the content you complain about to literally any art site you think is run better, and time how long it takes them to remove it. The best I can ethically do is suggest you set a timer next time you see a policy violation on whatever your non-FA art site of choice is, and keep refreshing until it’s gone. The point is that it’s unrealistic to expect any moderation to happen fast enough to meaningfully shorten the time that submissions spend on the front page at most times of day.
(For reference, here’s the oldest and newest submission on the front page loading it up at a very low traffic time of day. They’re not exactly spread far apart in time.)

Far as I’m concerned, though, it speaks volumes that you’re willing to complain about content you’re not willing to report. I wish people didn’t break the rules, too, but I’m going to acknowledge that it’s not on staff that people choose to do so, and that reports are how you tell staff “hey, you need to have a look at this.”

I also agree that this is an issue to a degree that seemingly only FA has, which is odd to me. Why doesn't DeviantArt or SoFurry or [insert art website here] have such an issue with sorting and ratings etc.? I'm not saying this doesn't happen on [insert art website here] but it definitely doesn't happen nearly as much as to warrant something such as this thread.
Quite honestly, scale and site culture are probably the biggest factors. I can’t say for sure with SF (I jumped that ship when they rebranded from Yiffstar, for a number of reasons), but unless things have changed drastically since I last actively used dA, the content you object to just isn’t uploaded to nearly the same extent there, period. And it’s not like dA has a reputation for stellar moderation in general.

FA sits, IMO, at an intersection of factors that each contribute:
  • Large enough that moderation queues or continuous monitoring of new content isn’t really feasible (unless a pretty robust system for distribution of content for review between a largish number of staff members were to be implemented)
  • Enough people willing to risk penalties for abusing the system (in a gamble for exposure) to (continuously) seed the site with violations knowing that they are violating the rules
  • Enough people thinking observing what gets uploaded is a sufficient substitute for actually reading the rules, who get the wrong impression from the above people’s uploads
  • A report system that admittedly is a bit clunky (though tbh it still probably doesn’t take me longer to report a submission on FA than it takes me to report a tweet on Twitter, which has a system that looks good on paper)
  • An attitude among users that reporting things doesn’t make a difference/matter, which gets encouraged by people repeating the talking point that reports supposedly take months to be seen and/or that staff plays favorites in processing reports
  • An attitude among users that reporting things is one or more of the following: tattling, disloyal to the artist you’re reporting, an attack on/targeting the artist being reported, etc
  • A perception that following the rules puts you at a disadvantage, since the people breaking the rules may ultimately be getting more exposure for it if they get away with it
  • There’s a history of some artists (in some cases with sizable followings) reacting to actions being taken against them with publicly lashing out, right down to ascribing malice and/or bigotry to whoever reported the problem - it’s frankly understandable if this makes people reluctant to report their submissions for fear of retribution (the source of a complaint is never revealed to submission owners, but that doesn’t mean the prospect of the popular artist finding out and turning their clout on you can’t be intimidating)
  • Seems to attract users with Very Specific Interests that I at least haven’t really seen equivalents to on many other platforms. Things like “all I want to draw is spherical cartoonishly fat characters in tutus” (not an actual example; I have a couple in mind but don’t want to risk singling socially vulnerable people out) I at least haven’t run across much elsewhere.
I do think, regardless, that it’s important to separate policy and user behavior. Wanting soft vore with no overt sexual or violent overtones to be rated Mature is a policy matter. It’s a valid opinion, and if you (gen) feel that way it’s a point you should absolutely be able to raise. It’s also something that site management can do something about directly.

When it comes to content that already is not permitted being posted, or content posted in ways that don’t conform to posted site policy, that’s a user behavior issue. Raising it is arguably more useful in a “damn it people stop doing this!” addressing the community type way. Site management and staff (the former being the subset of the latter that has the larger hand in shaping/writing policy) can primarily work indirectly to dissuade this behavior through imposing penalties on the offenders. Doesn’t mean the issue can’t or shouldn’t be discussed, but it needs to be with the acknowledgement (whether explicit or implicit) that what users do isn’t something that can be directly controlled.

I just want to make a point to say that if we (gen) start treating these two classes of issues as one and the same, we’re not going to be doing anyone any favors. There’s definitely ways in which FA is a hella dysfunctional system, and addressing those is... not going to be an easy fix in most cases.

No wonder this place has so few staff members, nobody wants to do a job they don't get paid for, and I doubt enough people actually care about "Furaffinity" the brand to just work for free on a website.
I’m going to be frank with you, here: I cared enough about the site and its community (not “the brand”) to volunteer for just short of five years. Would have been five exactly, but the time table of my resignation was changed (by myself) due to abuse I received from a portion of the community at the time, and the effect it had on me.

I met people who burned out on being staff. I met people who were removed from staff by site management. I met people whose life situation changed to where they couldn’t fit volunteering in anymore. I never once met anyone on moderation staff for whom pay entered into the equation (far as I’m aware, obviously; if it was they sure never told me) as to whether they wanted to do the job. They all did it because they cared.

I’m not going to claim I was a marvel of work ethic through every single day/week/month of those five years. But that was never related to pay - most of the time it was related to depression, anhedonia, and executive dysfunction. The one thing that came back multiple times to push me close to the line of throwing my hands up and walking away? People badmouthing staff over stupid shit. You are not the first person to suggest that moderation would be better if only staff were less “lazy.” It’s discouraging and hurtful to read that kind of thing right after you spent like 6-10 hours putting out fires. I’m not saying staff is above criticism, but any criticism should at least be, well, reasonable. It’s not reasonable to drag staff for not being able to preempt people posting big D in General.

If you think there might not be enough staff, at least don’t contribute to it feeling like a thankless job (and thus potentially increasing turnover) by dismissing the work they do as not enough.

——

I think I might have more to say later, but I have literally 30 minutes to get ready and out the door at this point. I just can’t stand idly by and let staff be maligned over the userbase doing things they’ve been told not to.
 
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Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage
It’s... not acceptable according to FA’s rating guidelines, though? I probably would have double checked with another staff member who actually worked ratings to be sure, when I was on staff, but that looks to me like it runs afoul of what the AUP describes as acceptable “nudity” in General (emphasis mine):

That's exactly the point.
Sorry, sarcasm is hard to read in text sometimes. ^^;

I just want to make a point to say that if we (gen) start treating these two classes of issues as one and the same, we’re not going to be doing anyone any favors. There’s definitely ways in which FA is a hella dysfunctional system, and addressing those is... not going to be an easy fix in most cases.

And once again you make a valid point. I'd like to add more but you added the entire pot so to speak, and I'm all too happy to just nod and smile in agreement.

As far as the above with other websites I'm no expert so I can't provide much detail but what you said certainly seems like a logical conclusion.

If you think there might not be enough staff, at least don’t contribute to it feeling like a thankless job (and this potentially increasing turnover) by dismissing the work they do as not enough.

The individual doesn't understand how being a staff member on a website works. I wouldn't be too upset with them, but I definitely understand your passion and appreciate the efforts you put in during your time as staff - as well as the special brand of insight you're able to offer now because of it.

I think I might have more to say later, but I have literally 30 minutes to get ready and out the door at this point. I just can’t stand idly by and let staff be maligned over the userbase doing things they’ve been told not to.

Completely understandable, hence my statements. I wasn't too thrilled either.

Catch you in the next post!
 

Ziggy Schlacht

Hasn't figured out this "straight" business
So I did some searching on SFW mode - I found a rate of 1-2% of submissions were a bit questionable (though none that I probably couldn't find an equivalent on TV), and of the 400-500 submissions, one (under pregnancy... a category I don't get at all) that probably was misfiled (there were female presenting nipples). Given the rate of submissions I actually think that's quite good. Also, I don't think most people maliciously post stuff under the wrong category - not sure what they'd gain. The folks browsing on general don't want your porn - you're not going to gain anything by sending them it. It's usually just an opinion/misclick.

Meaning all these grand plans of staff moderating and what not wouldn't justify the cost - that's a hugely complicated solution to a problem of, ultimately, taste. Even if FA put in a massive review approval system to make sure the ratings were right, what would they gain? A few less posts on the forum about the same topic?

As I've mentioned before - the only viable solution is I see is a second part of a rating system where the poster can declare "this is fetish art" to get around some of the grey areas. Who knows, maybe there's a subset of people who want racy, but not explicit, fetish material and this gets there.

If that's not good enough, I'm going to channel (I think) a bit of @quoting_mungo and say "volunteer to moderate." If you don't think the rating system is enough, you can always do the legwork to make it better. No, not report. Moderate.
 

Filter

ɹǝʇlᴉℲ
Maybe a system where you can block images or artists. After a set number of images or artists are blocked by users, they stop appearing on the main page. There's potential for abusing the system, of course, but maybe an AI can be developed to help avoid that.

There will still need to be a way "Unsee" the questionable content that slips through, but there shouldn't be as much of it.

men-in-black-2-700x500.jpg
 
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