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Wtf is the deal with Therians?

Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage
Does it look like I was making fun of them? I was simply pointing out their flawed logic. Because hey, you were put into a human body for a reason.

As said prior, not all therians are spiritually identifying. It could be due to psychological reasons.

What you said essentially tallies up to; If you experience dysphoria, kill yourself.

Do you believe the same for Trans individuals?
How about those who have physical deformities and wish for different circumstances?

It's incredibly insensitive to rule it all under one definition and then imply a group should shoot themselves to solve the issue. Especially if the core struggle of that group (general dysphoria) is experienced by several other groups (the trans community, those with physical deformities, those who survived wars and are now missing limbs they wish they had, etc). You might not see it as that extreme because to you, it's just some morbid humor making fun of weird people on the internet, but to me...it comes across as a much more pointed statement towards anyone with Dysphoria. It's rather cruel of you.

What do you mean? I was never implying to kill myself or to encourage someone else.

To quote you from earlier...

If one would literally believe that they are an animal spirit that somehow got transferred into a human body, wouldn't it make the most sense for the to kill themselves

This is basic Evasion tactics in Ethics.

While you didn't directly state, "You should kill yourself" you phrased it in a question that implies your thoughts on the subject. Stating otherwise is a way to take off the guilt or responsibility from what you said, but anyone reading would know and understand the implication.

Even if you didn't think this and you were just asking for theoretical or philosophical reasons anyone with social intelligence and a bit of psychological knowledge would know the implications of such a question, and how others might take it. It goes beyond asking an "innocent" question, and I'm pretty sure you're smart enough and/or old enough to understand why that is.

But hey, let's assume you didn't mean any of that and just thought stating the question would be a constructive addition to the conversation...in my opinion, bringing up suicide in any context likely isn't a good idea unless the topic itself is about suicide. I doubt anyone discussing general reincarnation theory wants to hear the addition of, "Why don't people who believe in coming back shoot themselves and save themselves the time or trouble of living this life?"

Even outside of the OP's topic, it's just...extremely out of nowhere, incredibly rude, and very easy to misread.
I hope you can understand why Tyra wanted to provide that addition to let others know not to take it seriously.
 
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Nexus Cabler

Lord of typos
What do you mean? I was never implying to kill myself or to encourage someone else.
Trya was just saying not to kill ones self as a safety precaution since the idea of suicide was mentioned, because this forum has had some moments of people who have expressed self harming thoughts.

I don’t personally think you are promoting people harming themselves. The thing with talking online is that it’s not as easy to understand what someone means, especially on sensitive subjects or topics that are important to some people.
 

Parabellum3

I'm not a furry if I have feathers.
What you said essentially tallies up to; If you experience dysphoria, kill yourself. Do you believe the same for Trans individuals? How about those who have physical deformities and wish for different circumstances?

As said prior, not all therians are spiritually identifying. It could be due to psychological reasons.

It's incredibly insensitive to rule it all under one definition and then imply a group should shoot themselves to solve the issue. Especially if the core struggle of that group (general dysphoria) is experienced by several other groups (the trans community, those with physical deformities, those who survived wars and are now missing limbs they wish they had, etc). You might not see it as that extreme because to you, it's just some morbid humor making fun of weird people on the internet, but to me...it comes across as a much more pointed statement towards anyone with Dysphoria. It's rather cruel of you.



To quote you from earlier...



This is basic Evasion tactics in Ethics.

While you didn't directly state, "You should kill yourself" you phrased it in a question that implies your thoughts on the subject. Stating otherwise is a way to take off the guilt or responsibility from what you said, but anyone reading would know and understand the implication.

Even if you didn't think this and you were just asking for theoretical or philosophical reasons anyone with social intelligence and a bit of psychological knowledge would know the implications of such a question, and how others might take it. It goes beyond asking an "innocent" question, and I'm pretty sure you're smart enough and/or old enough to understand why that is.

But hey, let's assume you didn't mean any of that and just thought stating the question would be a constructive addition to the conversation...in my opinion, bringing up suicide in any context likely isn't a good idea unless the topic itself is about suicide. I doubt anyone discussing general reincarnation theory wants to hear the addition of, "Why don't people who believe in coming back shoot themselves and save themselves the time or trouble of living this life?"

Even outside of the OP's topic, it's just...extremely out of nowhere, incredibly rude, and very easy to misread.
I hope you can understand why Tyra wanted to provide that addition to let others know not to take it seriously.
Trya was just saying not to kill ones self as a safety precaution since the idea of suicide was mentioned, because this forum has had some moments of people who have expressed self harming thoughts.

I don’t personally think you are promoting people harming themselves. The thing with talking online is that it’s not as easy to understand what someone means, especially on sensitive subjects or topics that are important to some people.
Admittedly my question may have been quite blunt and may easily cause some misunderstandings so I do apologize for that. However, to reiterate myself, my question was entirely hypothetical and had nothing to do with encouragement of any impractical actions nor was it meant to portray therians/otherkin in a bad manner.

End of story.
 

Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage
Admittedly my question may have been quite blunt and may easily cause some misunderstandings so I do apologize for that. However, to reiterate myself, my question was entirely hypothetical and had nothing to do with encouragement of any impractical actions nor was it meant to portray therians/otherkin in a bad manner.

The clarification is appreciated, Para.
 

Foxridley

A fox named Ridley
If one would literally believe that they are an animal spirit that somehow got transferred into a human body, wouldn't it make the most sense for the to kill themselves and hope they get reincarnated into the correct species?
Oddly, Hamlet came to mind. Self preservation and fear of death are pretty powerful and "[make] us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of."
And therians do not necessarily believe in reincarnation.
 

AniwayasSong

Well-Known Member
I never I.D.'d myself as 'Therian' and know next to nothing about the given definition of that word/group/ideology. Just putting that up front in all honesty.
I do believe in reincarnation and 'Animism', as defined by most Native People's theologies (and others, not trying to be prejudiced, either).
As such, I'm as certain as I can be I've lived at least three lives prior to this human one. One avian. One canid. One I'm not sharing here.
As for mythological critters? Here's my thoughts on it after I burned through a few thousand brain cells considering it-
Single biggest counter I hear folks present to this is- "How can you have lived or been something that isn't real?" Good point!
Now, I'm also not a theoretical physicist, though what little I can grasp fascinates me. What about alternate realities or multi-verse theories that have (I believe) been proven as mathematically possible? Who can say what will or will not work in such environments? If Souls aren't limited to the real world, perhaps they can slip in-between realities/universes? It makes me ponder.
As for most Therians claiming to be 'Popular Species'? Another good point, and my last take on it-
Ever wonder why we like/dislike certain things? Foods we adore, others we detest? Types of music, art, hobbies, etc.? Who's to say people 'Remember' past lives they most closely relate to for whatever reason? Perhaps prejudice does play a role in this? I wouldn't want to recall what living a life as a banana slug was like, as an example.
So, things to ponder.
Ain't life grand?
;-)
 

Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage
I never I.D.'d myself as 'Therian' and know next to nothing about the given definition of that word/group/ideology. Just putting that up front in all honesty.
I do believe in reincarnation and 'Animism', as defined by most Native People's theologies (and others, not trying to be prejudiced, either).
As such, I'm as certain as I can be I've lived at least three lives prior to this human one. One avian. One canid. One I'm not sharing here.
As for mythological critters? Here's my thoughts on it after I burned through a few thousand brain cells considering it-
Single biggest counter I hear folks present to this is- "How can you have lived or been something that isn't real?" Good point!
Now, I'm also not a theoretical physicist, though what little I can grasp fascinates me. What about alternate realities or multi-verse theories that have (I believe) been proven as mathematically possible? Who can say what will or will not work in such environments? If Souls aren't limited to the real world, perhaps they can slip in-between realities/universes? It makes me ponder.
As for most Therians claiming to be 'Popular Species'? Another good point, and my last take on it-
Ever wonder why we like/dislike certain things? Foods we adore, others we detest? Types of music, art, hobbies, etc.? Who's to say people 'Remember' past lives they most closely relate to for whatever reason? Perhaps prejudice does play a role in this? I wouldn't want to recall what living a life as a banana slug was like, as an example.
So, things to ponder.
Ain't life grand?
;-)

I adore your take on this.
 

puffypawbs

Active Member
I identify as an otherlink, which means I willingly identify as the species that i identify as -- as opposed to therians who believe that they unwillingly identify as their kin. I don't doubt it comes from my desire for escapism, but being honest about that doesn't bother me.

I believe that compared to an average furry, however, I am much further along on the spectrum of species dysphoria. I couldn't have a partner who doesn't long to look like their fursona, if that makes sense.
 

Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage
I identify as an otherlink, which means I willingly identify as the species that i identify as -- as opposed to therians who believe that they unwillingly identify as their kin. I don't doubt it comes from my desire for escapism, but being honest about that doesn't bother me.

I believe that compared to an average furry, however, I am much further along on the spectrum of species dysphoria. I couldn't have a partner who doesn't long to look like their fursona, if that makes sense.

Would you ever consider seeing a psychologist for a possible diagnosis of some kind, or do you feel it's not a psychological disorder and more a matter of coping?

How would you separate these two things, and why?

This is the first time I've heard of Otherlink as a term. Then again, I (officially?) joined the community around 2014 or 2015-ish and left in 2019(?), or around early 2020. So there's a lot about the newer stuff I don't know. Ironically, part of why I left was because I felt the distinction between mental health and identity was becoming blurred, and that made me uncomfortable. As the original point was to develop self awareness and grow as people, and now, a majority of the community seems much more focused on the fantasy elements...but I'm rambling at this point. My initial question still stands, if you're comfortable enough to answer it.
 

puffypawbs

Active Member
Would you ever consider seeing a psychologist for a possible diagnosis, or do you feel it's not a psychological factor and more a matter of coping?

I'm sure I have all of my diagnoses. I'm on the spectrum as well as having social anxiety and depression. But that said, I think it is a matter of coping with these disorders. I really am fine with that though. It doesn't take the fun out of otherlink for me.
 

Parabellum3

I'm not a furry if I have feathers.
I identify as an otherlink, which means I willingly identify as the species that i identify as -- as opposed to therians who believe that they unwillingly identify as their kin. I don't doubt it comes from my desire for escapism, but being honest about that doesn't bother me.

I believe that compared to an average furry, however, I am much further along on the spectrum of species dysphoria. I couldn't have a partner who doesn't long to look like their fursona, if that makes sense.
Who do you identify as exactly? In terms of being otherlink.
 

puffypawbs

Active Member
Who do you identify as exactly? In terms of being otherlink.
raccoon dog a.k.a. tanuki!
9607caa1802ae63b26bac6cf777caba5.jpg
 

Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage
I'm sure I have all of my diagnoses. I'm on the spectrum as well as having social anxiety and depression. But that said, I think it is a matter of coping with these disorders. I really am fine with that though. It doesn't take the fun out of otherlink for me.

It's interesting you mention that. There was a survey awhile back (I think it was conducted on Therian Guide or by a Member of Therian Guide). Apparently there are a lot of folks on the spectrum drawn to both the Furry and overall Otherkin communities. Likely for the same desire of escape and acceptance that they might not find in their day to day lives. This is all just speculation since no one survey is an end all answer to things, but it's interesting to me nonetheless. So long as people are happy, (and aren't convinced of something that isn't possible and/or could harm themselves or others due to said fantasies,) that's all I really care about.
 

puffypawbs

Active Member
Ah. Do you also believe that you are an animal spirit in a human body?
nope, but i like to imagine myself as an idealized version of a tanuki. I say idealized because tanukis do not lead very glamorous lives. they live a much shorter lifespan than a human and live very rough lives in the wild.

but if we lived in a technologically advanced world where one can transform into any form they want permanently while still retaining a good standard of living and human lifespan, i would transform into a tanuki in a heartbeat.
 

Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage
but if we lived in a technologically advanced world where one can transform into any form they want permanently while still retaining a good standard of living and human lifespan, i would transform into a tanuki in a heartbeat.

So...like Tom & Jerry? Where the animals are animals but can basically do whatever they wanna do; such as reading a newspaper like a human...?
Or more like Beastars? Or Zootopia? Or would you still wanna be the feral animal...? I'm sorry if this is too many questions, lol.
 

puffypawbs

Active Member
So...like Tom & Jerry? Where the animals are animals but can basically do whatever they wanna do; such as reading a newspaper like a human...?
Or more like Beastars? Or Zootopia? Or would you still wanna be the feral animal...? I'm sorry if this is too many questions, lol.
i'd say like a feral animal in a zoo! y'know, all my needs accounted for while i have a safe enclosure with others of my species to live with. and you're totally fine, nobody has ever asked me these questions before but i'm happy to answer them!
 

Parabellum3

I'm not a furry if I have feathers.
nope, but i like to imagine myself as an idealized version of a tanuki. I say idealized because tanukis do not lead very glamorous lives. they live a much shorter lifespan than a human and live very rough lives in the wild.

but if we lived in a technologically advanced world where one can transform into any form they want permanently while still retaining a good standard of living and human lifespan, i would transform into a tanuki in a heartbeat.
Isn't that what the concept of being a furry is about though?
 

puffypawbs

Active Member
Isn't that what the concept of being a furry is about though?
i believe the main difference between what i am vs. a furry is that furries identify with their fursona; but they generally draw a line between their human identity and their fursona.

and if a furry truly identifies EXCLUSIVELY as their fursona and they would much prefer to physically embody their fursona then at that point, they're an alter human, which is the umbrella term that other link and therian fall under.

a furry is only defined as a fan of anthropomorphic animals, and even though fursonas are very popular in the fandom, we can't assume that furries in general would rather physically embody their fursona (despite how much they joke about it :p)

i hope that was at least somewhat cohesive lol
 
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puffypawbs

Active Member
It's interesting you mention that. There was a survey awhile back (I think it was conducted on Therian Guide or by a Member of Therian Guide). Apparently there are a lot of folks on the spectrum drawn to both the Furry and overall Otherkin communities. Likely for the same desire of escape and acceptance that they might not find in their day to day lives. This is all just speculation since no one survey is an end all answer to things, but it's interesting to me nonetheless. So long as people are happy, (and aren't convinced of something that isn't possible and/or could harm themselves or others due to said fantasies,) that's all I really care about.
I have lurked on more than one therian forum and seen a couple threads that discuss the prevalence of people on the spectrum who identify as therian, and i may have heard discussion of the prevalence of people on the spectrum in the furry fandom as well either on this forum or another, but i definitely agree that it's interesting! and i think you're correct that these communities offer escape and acceptance for autistic people :3
 

NuclearSlayer52

purring like a wolf
that if an animal was a human that was reincarnated, they'd lack the consciousness or self awareness to be able to process that information
i think since humans are also animals, there shouldnt be any reasons why other animals wouldnt have consciousness and self awareness, and i think that would mean there shouldnt be any reasons why they cant be therian or otherkin
 

Saokymo

Art Cookie
i think since humans are also animals, there shouldnt be any reasons why other animals wouldnt have consciousness and self awareness, and i think that would mean there shouldnt be any reasons why they cant be therian or otherkin
I mean my cats definitely think they’re small, fuzzy humans, or that we are large hairless cats as it is. I’m sure there are animals out there who believe they have the soul of a human, if they have a concept of such.
 

Raever

Chaotic Neutral Wreckage
i think since humans are also animals, there shouldnt be any reasons why other animals wouldnt have consciousness and self awareness, and i think that would mean there shouldnt be any reasons why they cant be therian or otherkin

Humans being animals has nothing to do with the statement, but I'll humor you by saying humans spend much more time developing in the womb than most any animal, and as such, have a much stronger ability to develop rational and cognitive thought passed just the need for basic enjoyment, survival, and/or breeding purposes like most other animals on earth.

Please note that while I do believe animals can have a certain level of awareness and consciousness (Dolphins can play with toys, dogs can recognize their owners to a degree, etc), I meant more along the lines of complex identity (something that cannot be taught or mimicked but learned through self-garnered experience over time, time that many animals don't have due to a mix of reasons).

If you believe that animals are capable of "complex" human-like thought, science itself disagrees with you, so I won't bother starting that useless debate.

Even if the above wasn't true, an animal identifying as a human likely wouldn't occur. There is a difference between adapting to human life for survival or comfort reasons, and feeling/thinking one is human. The animal would theoretically have to be able to define what it means to be a human, and seperate a human life from their own life, as well as consciously understand what that would entail and identify with it in partial or wholly to the point it becomes apart of you. It's much deeper than you might think.

if they have a concept of such.

To argue that animals do or could one day have the psychological and neurological ability to identify as something other than themselves and understand it is one thing, but they'd need to get there first before ever developing a religious or spiritual outlook on life after death (such as a soul).

There was, or used to be, a common key phrase in the Therian community that went along the lines of "Don't anthropomorphize [blank]" - and contrary to what you might think, this isn't at all related to the Furry Fandom. It was a saying that essentially meant that it was dangerous for one's mental health to believe things that weren't factual and could be considered high fantasy, because at that point it wouldn't be identity and self discovery, it would become unhealthy coping mechanisms (I assume beyond even this new "Otherlink" term since, as the above user has displayed, they're able to seperate themselves and understand limits animals and humans have).

Even if you aren't a Therian, Otherkin, etc. putting real life animals into this "All creatures are neurologically equal" category outside of speculative debate can be quite...damaging. It's pure fantasy and favoritism towards a species other than your own, in cases such as that, nothing more.
 
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