• Fur Affinity Forums are governed by Fur Affinity's Rules and Policies. Links and additional information can be accessed in the Site Information Forum.

XKeyscore Collects 'Nearly Everything You Do Online'

Nikolinni

Niko Linni
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-data

Well as the invasion of everyone's privacy continues, we now have this little program leaked that belongs to the NSA. This top secret program, as the title says, spies on EVERYTHING you do on the internet. And I know "Lol who cares cause all I do is furry", but come on guys. Especially those in the US. Our rights are getting put through a shredder and pretty much no one seems to care.

Ah well. As per usual, you may proceed to tell me that I've no idea what I'm talking about and that I watch V for Vendetta to much.
 

Fallowfox

Are we moomin, or are we dancer?
On this subject, I agree that 'all I do is boring stuff' is an oversimplification of the topic.

Even if you do fairly mundane things online large amounts of 'boring' data about people, which some of us would like to remain private, can effectively be assembled and processed in order to manipulate us. An esoteric example is predicting somebody's sexuality, which can be performed with a roughly 80% confidence based only on the information freely accessible on a facebook page. Imagine what can be discerned with the data you don't realise anybody can read.

If data is being harvested it should be consensual and openly published, so that we are aware of and can defend against being manipulated.
 

Schwimmwagen

Well-Known Member
I feel I agree with fallow here, but I believe that since the US population is so large, they won't be arsed to look at your data specifically. However, if you're a suspect of a crime (turrorist thret), they can look at your data and they will.

If they were to look through all the data to find people they can convict for something, they'd need a huge amount of staff. Huge.

It's a weapon/tool that for the most part remains dormant until it's called upon for an individual case where this extra bit of potential evidence is useful.

That's my theory.
 

Fallowfox

Are we moomin, or are we dancer?
I feel I agree with fallow here, but I believe that since the US population is so large, they won't be arsed to look at your data specifically. However, if you're a suspect of a crime (turrorist thret), they can look at your data and they will.

If they were to look through all the data to find people they can convict for something, they'd need a huge amount of staff. Huge.

It's a weapon/tool that for the most part remains dormant until it's called upon for an individual case where this extra bit of potential evidence is useful.

That's my theory.

I don't think individual targeting is the concern. What about monitoring people's private information in order to boost the chance of winning an election or suppressing public dissent?

What about the potential sale of information to companies by corrupt operatives, who could use the information to create more effective spam regimes, create unfair insurance policies or persuade people they should buy products they do not really need?

Or the infiltration of such a system by hackers who might wish to use the information for any purpose, for instance a vigilante witch hunt in which all the names and addresses of people whose web searches indicate a >50% probability of being paedophiles are published?
 

Schwimmwagen

Well-Known Member
I don't think individual targeting is the concern. What about monitoring people's private information in order to boost the chance of winning an election or suppressing public dissent?

What about the potential sale of information to companies by corrupt operatives, who could use the information to create more effective spam regimes, create unfair insurance policies or persuade people they should buy products they do not really need?

Or the infiltration of such a system by hackers who might wish to use the information for any purpose, for instance a vigilante witch hunt in which all the names and addresses of people whose web searches indicate a >50% probability of being paedophiles are published?

I think everything so far listed in this thread are all valid concerns.
 

Gryphoneer

20 Quatloos on "disruptive"
What about monitoring people's private information in order to boost the chance of winning an election or suppressing public dissent?
How about this: the transnational plutocratic elites fear public backlash because they bleed every dime out of our societies to enrich themselves, so they try to nip any backlash in the bud by implementing an IT-based panopticon and turning the world's nations into police states.

Yeah, I don't think changing your Facebook icon will stop any of this. Time to take to the street and hope you don't get hospitalized by the cops.
 

TrishaCat

The Cat in the FAF
Nikolinni, you are not wrong to be concerned with this. It really sucks that the NSA watches us.
And this is horrible.
I fear what they might think they know about me.
 

PastryOfApathy

Well-Known Member
People (and by that I mean me) don't care because honestly there's nothing we can do to stop the government from fucking our rights one way or the other. We can try to start a "revolution", we can protest, we can do whatever the hell we feel will work. But the fact is that once the dust settles and we inevitably move on the government will continue to do what it's been doing more or less since its inception.

It's horrible, but there's not much we can do.
 

Fallowfox

Are we moomin, or are we dancer?
People (and by that I mean me) don't care because honestly there's nothing we can do to stop the government from fucking our rights one way or the other. We can try to start a "revolution", we can protest, we can do whatever the hell we feel will work. But the fact is that once the dust settles and we inevitably move on the government will continue to do what it's been doing more or less since its inception.

It's horrible, but there's not much we can do.

Stand for election. Vote. Lobby. ....or their worst nightmare. Stop buying crap.
 

PastryOfApathy

Well-Known Member
Stand for election. Vote. Lobby. ....or their worst nightmare. Stop buying crap.

Voting for people who essentially exist as mouthpieces for one of two equally insidious parties and lobbying until they pretend to stop whatever they're doing doesn't really accomplish much.
 

Fallowfox

Are we moomin, or are we dancer?
Voting for people who essentially exist as mouthpieces for one of two equally insidious parties and lobbying until they pretend to stop whatever they're doing doesn't really accomplish much.

Then you should vote for me. I'll promise to maybe lie a bit less, if it turns out to be convenient.
 

PsychicOtter

Otter Missionary
If the government wants to watch people's internet activity to prevent a future threat, fine by me. If they didn't monitor internet activity and something happened that could've been prevented, then everyone would be saying "why didn't they do more."
 

Percy

o-o
Yeah, I've pretty much accepted the fact that I'm being watched. It's not like I can help it.
 

Zabrina

Awoken
Well, I guess shit happens, y'know?

What Percy said. We can't do very much about it.
 

Cain

Guess what mood I'm in today.
They've been doing this for how long?

And only when someone leaks that it's been going on for however long, everyone get's up in arms about 'OMG INVASION OF OUR PRIVACY' etcetc.

They've been doing it for years.

Don't like it? Try actually changing the US political system by voting independent. Maybe then you'll actually get some real, proper change and not a shit economy and problems that get passed along the line.

Like, c'mon. It's like Paranoia is the new 'thing' to be into.
 

AlexInsane

I does what I says on the box.
The government probably knew everything about me before now. What a waste of time and resources, keeping tabs on all the boring-ass people in the country.
 

M. LeRenard

Is not French
If you fear being watched, you have something to hide.

Having things you wish to remain private is obviously only something criminals and social outcasts would do. It's definitely not something everyone on the planet does.


Honestly, spying on everyone in the country (and in other countries) is a really pea-brained way to go about protecting one's citizens from threats. Like, what are they going to do with all of that info, anyway? Sift through it looking for terrorist suspects to arrest? Perform a vast global-scale sociological survey to isolate all people of ill intent? Write an algorithm to predict the course of history for the next ten centuries?
What such a database is useful for (ALL that it's useful for) is to build a better case posthumously; in other words, if you're a suspect in an investigation where this info is available as evidence, prosecutors can hire people to sift through your entire digital life looking for any kind of 'unusual' behavior that might be twisted into a case against you. Unless someone figures out how to use said information to predict with certainty that you're going to commit a crime, it can't be used as a preventative measure against anything. And if someone does figure out how to do that, we'll be strutting proudly into Minority Report territory.

I think the question is, do the benefits of such spying outweigh the possibilities for abuse? In which case, my problem is that I doubt (since it's by its very nature secretive) anyone has done much of a detailed analysis in this regard before implementing the programs. So it's one of those things that could be easily exploited, set into motion because someone somewhere decided that it was for the good of the country, and yes sir I'll make sure this info is only viewed by trusted individuals of good moral character. But I think one of the laws of entropy states that every secret will eventually be divulged, no matter the measures taken to prevent it.
 

Tiller

New Member
Voting for people who essentially exist as mouthpieces for one of two equally insidious parties and lobbying until they pretend to stop whatever they're doing doesn't really accomplish much.

Then get into office yourself through one of the parties and rock shit once you're in power. That's my plan, although I probably have an advantage of having family ties with the DFL.
 
Last edited:

DrDingo

Moved to phoenix.corvidae.org with the others
People have said this before and I'll say it again- what could any government possibly do with my web history that I would disapprove of? I think of it a bit like a continuous, detailed census. They find out more about the interests of the citizens.
 

Fallowfox

Are we moomin, or are we dancer?
They've been doing this for how long?

And only when someone leaks that it's been going on for however long, everyone get's up in arms about 'OMG INVASION OF OUR PRIVACY' etcetc.

They've been doing it for years.

Don't like it? Try actually changing the US political system by voting independent. Maybe then you'll actually get some real, proper change and not a shit economy and problems that get passed along the line.

Like, c'mon. It's like Paranoia is the new 'thing' to be into.

And don't forget to push for the abolition of electoral colleges and systems which effectively reduce the weight of votes that are cast for unpopular parties and dampen the voting power of densely populated constituencies.

People have said this before and I'll say it again- what could any government possibly do with my web history that I would disapprove of? I think of it a bit like a continuous, detailed census. They find out more about the interests of the citizens.

as has been established fairly boring information about you can be computed to determine very personal information about you and the groups you belong to.

This information, derived without your permission and hosted without transparency for independent review and criticism by non governmental scientists affords the ruling party the ability to manipulate you.
For instance they might discover that the statistical probability of you protesting about measures to block terrorist phone calls, even if they also block phone calls discussing climate change* policy, is low if they also release a distraction law about something you care about- such as banning your favourite things.

Or they might lose the data on an unencrypted CD on a bus, as has happened numerous times, for criminals to process.

*which the ruling party may deny exists.
 
Last edited:
Top